Winged Sage Falcos vs Sangan

[squid]

I need help. it seems I have started dreaming of scenarios dealing with ygo rulings. Unfortunately, my dream delirium makes it difficult to fully comprehend myself...o_0

Anyways, I use Winged Sage Falcos to attack Sangan. Sangan is sent to the Graveyard and I opt to use the effect of Falcos to send it back to the top of my deck.

From what I understand, both effects activate at the end of the damage step. Since Sangan is mandatory, and Falcos appears to be optional (ie: carries the "can" term) I am assuming that the order of events is that

link 1: Sangan
link 2: Falcos

resolve Falcos first, putting Sangan at the top of the owner's deck. Resolve Sangan, putting an Appropriate monster in the owner's hand.

Is this a correct interpretation?

 

[skey23]

Yes, that would be how it would work out.

 

[squid]

lawd 'ave mercy! I think Im beginning to understand this game.

 

[Jason_C]

The fun thing is, then, that Sangan will get shuffled into the deck (which I'm assuming is what you're getting at, but I have to clarify and spam whenever possible).

 

[skey23]

Why would the deck be shuffled?

 

[Jason_C]

Why would the deck be shuffled?

That's what usually happens after the deck is searched for a monster. :bouncy_je

 

[skey23]

Oh!...Duh! I completely forgot the order of resolution when I asked that...lol. Brain fart!

 

[DaGuyWitBluGlasses]

Sangan can search for itself, btw.

 

[HorusMaster]

I would have thought that if you activated Winged Sage Falcos effect first, putting Sangan at the top of your deck, that Sangan's effect would Disappear since it is no longer in the graveyard to activate. Wouldn't that be along the lines of Kycoo's effect, essentially removing it from the graveyard. Or would you activate the effect of Sangan first, putting an Appropriate card in the players hand before deciding to activate the effect of Winged Sage Falcos? Just a poor thought....

 

[bigdevilyogi]

it goes to the graveyard first, and then it goes back to the top of the deck.

 

[Dillie-O]

Remember, Sangan just needs to meet the proper qualifications to activate its effect. So once it hits the graveyard as a result of battle, its effect actiates. After that, it can be bounced wherever it wants and doesn't have to stay in the graveyard for it to resolve properly.

If I may say ByserSquid, this is a tactic most fiendish.... 8^D

 

[HorusMaster]

That's what I thought- you would resolve the effect of Sangan before deciding to resolve the effect of Winged Sage Falcos. Thanks for clearing up what I thought to be true.

 

[Jason_C]

That's what I thought- you would resolve the effect of Sangan before deciding to resolve the effect of Winged Sage Falcos. Thanks for clearing up what I thought to be true.

No, that's not how it works. Remember, the effects both trigger at the same time, so they activate in a SEGOC maneuver. Falcos resolves first, then Sangan.

 

[skey23]

Yes, for those who aren't too sure what SEGOC means...let me shed some light!...lol.....

Simultaneous Effects Go On a Chain.

It's the term used to identify how Spell Speed 1 effects that activate at the same time will buid the chain. The key to remember is this:

Turn Player Mandatory Effects
Opponent Mandatory Effects
Turn Player Optional Effects
Oppnent Optional Effects

If a player has multiple effects of the same type, they choose the order to resolve them in.

So, in the given scenario, we have an Optional Effect ("Winged Sage Falcos") and a Mandatory Effect ("Sangan") activating at the exact same time when "Sangan" hits the Graveyard. So, by rules of building the chain, the Mandatory Effect goes on the chain 1st, then the Optional Effect is added 2nd. Now remember, NOTHING has resolved at this point. The effects have only activated and have now been placed on the chain. Then the chain resolves, provided neither player wishes to respond to the effect activations. So the Optional Effect resolves 1st, and "Sangan" is placed on the top of the deck. Then the Mandatory Effect resolves allowing "Sangan"s controller to search their deck for a qualifying monster, then they shuffle their deck.

Hope this has helped!

 

[squid]

It has. Its something you and Jason tried to beat into my head a little while back.

My only issue now is trying to get my own Sangan to the opponent's side (consistently) in order to abuse this recycling of the lil furry searcher.

 

[slither]

Shien's Spy my friend

EDIT: Heck I mean Mystic Box ^^

 

[squid]

Yeah, Mystic Box is my top choice for now. Too bad I haven't gone to get that yet

 

[Entropy]

Wait a minute.

Winged Sage Falcos
You can return your opponent's face-up Attack Position monster, that this card destroyed and sent to the Graveyard as a result of battle, to the top of your opponent's Deck.

Wouldn't that mean that it has to be your opponent's Sangan, not yours?

 

[Jason_C]

Wait a minute.

Winged Sage Falcos
You can return your opponent's face-up Attack Position monster, that this card destroyed and sent to the Graveyard as a result of battle, to the top of your opponent's Deck.

Wouldn't that mean that it has to be your opponent's Sangan, not yours?

If you put the monster on your opponent's side of the field, under their control, it is treated as their monster. Yay Mystic Box! (Eh?)

 

[Digital Jedi]

Wait a minute.

Winged Sage Falcos
You can return your opponent's face-up Attack Position monster, that this card destroyed and sent to the Graveyard as a result of battle, to the top of your opponent's Deck.

Wouldn't that mean that it has to be your opponent's Sangan, not yours?

That's the trick. Giving them your Sangan with Shien's Spy or something similar and then attacking it with the bird man.