A question about Jinzo

D

DimensionalWarrior

New Member
Studying for my "Judge Test" :)D) I planned some hypotetical situations and now I'm having trouble with this:

Player A: "I activate Waboku"
Player B: "I chain Mystical Space Typhoon to negate your Waboku. Do you wish to continue?"
Player A: "No, but MST does not negate waboku!"
Player B: "It doesn't? Then I activate then Call of the Haunted to summon Jinzo from my graveyard"

Problem: Does Jinzo negate the Waboku?
Considerations: Jinzo (As long as this card remains face-up on the field, trap cards cannot be activated and the effect of <face-up trap cards> is also negated)
Chain resolving:
1)CoTH
>Jinzo's effect is now active
2)MST destroys Waboku
3)Waboku resolves

I know Jinzo would negate a Waboku if it's summoned by CoTH before Waboku resolves, since (by game mechanics) Waboku has to stay face-up on the field until the chain resolves (making it valid for the text in Jinzo) but now that's in the graveyard...what happens?

:D! I hope it negates it or we'll have a new way to activate torrential with Jinzo on the field!!!
(chain resolving: MST(targeting Torrential)>CoTH>Torrential)
 
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You have active Waboku so that means that he's face-up ?

Or you can post it on the Judge List (if you have the answer can you post it in this topic because I wanna now too the answer to this question).
 
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Chain resolving:

1)CoTH resolves (bringing back Jinzo and negating the unresolved Waboku)

2)MST destroys Waboku (While Jinzo is negating the unresolved Waboku)

3)Waboku cannot resolve since it was negated while on the field and destroyed before it's chain link was reached.

Does that make sense or am I confusing myself? <smirk>
 
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John Danker said:
Chain resolving:

1)CoTH resolves (bringing back Jinzo and negating the unresolved Waboku)

2)MST destroys Waboku (While Jinzo is negating the unresolved Waboku)

3)Waboku cannot resolve since it was negated while on the field and destroyed before it's chain link was reached.

Does that make sense or am I confusing myself? <smirk>
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Sounds right.
 
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Interesting affirmation

3)Waboku cannot resolve since it was negated while on the field and destroyed before it's chain link was reached.
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This means that if at anytime during a chain if Jinzo or spell canceller are summoned, all traps/spells will not resolve because they are previously negated, no matter if they are destroyed.

Thanks a lot :D
 
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John Danker said:
Chain resolving:

1)CoTH resolves (bringing back Jinzo and negating the unresolved Waboku)

2)MST destroys Waboku (While Jinzo is negating the unresolved Waboku)

3)Waboku cannot resolve since it was negated while on the field and destroyed before it's chain link was reached.

Does that make sense or am I confusing myself? <smirk>
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Actually John, once an effect such as Waboku is activated, it is irrelevent what happens to the card itself, as it is non-continuous.

The "card" and "effect" become seperate, and the effect is trying to resolve on the field, and since Jinzo is now face-up, he will negate it.

The effect "floats" on the field...as the poetic Kevin puts it...
 
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novastar said:
Actually John, once an effect such as Waboku is activated, it is irrelevent what happens to the card itself, as it is non-continuous.

The "card" and "effect" become seperate, and the effect is trying to resolve on the field, and since Jinzo is now face-up, he will negate it.

The effect "floats" on the field...as the poetic Kevin puts it...
Click to expand...

Good point. I knew I was confusing myself! It's like the "empty shell" that we've been describing in another thread concerning Giant Trunade. I should have included that explination that it doesn't matter what happens to Waboku the card itself.

Lets try this again with explination...

1)CoTH resolves (bringing back Jinzo and negating the unresolved floating effect of Waboku)

2)MST destroys Waboku's "empty shell" (While Jinzo is negating the unresolved floating effect of Waboku)

3)Waboku's floating effect is negated
 
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So if Player A attacks player B's monster and player B flipps Draining Shield. Player a can flipp MST on Draining Shield the flipp COTH and bring Jinzo out to negate Draining Shield?
 
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BURN said:
So if Player A attacks player B's monster and player B flipps Draining Shield. Player a can flipp MST on Draining Shield the flipp COTH and bring Jinzo out to negate Draining Shield?
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It does not matter if you paly MST on Draining Shield. If CotH brings back Jinzo, Jinzo will negate Draining Shield, whether Draining Shiled is on the filed or not because when Jinzo was special summoned, Draining Shield was faced up.
 
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Follow up question:

Jinzo's effect is "As long as this card remains face-up on the field, Trap Cards cannot be activated. The effects of all face-up Trap Cards are negated."

So consider this play:
Player A activates "Waboku"
Player B activates CotH and targets Jinzo
Palyer A activates "Emergency Provision" and sends "Waboku" to the GY as a cost.
Neither player chains.

Resolution:
CL3: Player A gains 1000 LP
CL2: Jinzo is special summoned in ATK pos, but but does not negate "Waboku" becaus it is not face up in the field.
CL1: "Waboku" resolves.

Is this correct?
 
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We went over a sim. situation earlier in this thread.

Once Waboku is activated it (the card itself) becomes an empty shell. Waboku's effect "floats" on the field waiting to resolve.
Jinzo will still negate Waboku's now "floating effect" even though the empty shell of Waboku is no longer face up on the field.
 
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John Danker said:
We went over a sim. situation earlier in this thread.

Once Waboku is activated it (the card itself) becomes an empty shell. Waboku's effect "floats" on the field waiting to resolve.
Jinzo will still negate Waboku's now "floating effect" even though the empty shell of Waboku is no longer face up on the field.
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I understand the first sim. you guys did because when Jinzo was special summoned, Waboku is still face-up in the feild.

But Jinzo's effect is "As long as this card remains face-up on the field, Trap Cards cannot be activated. The effects of all face-up Trap Cards are negated."

In my situation, Waboku is not face-up in the field anymore because of Emergency Prov. This may have a different outcome.
 
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Jinzo's effect is "As long as this card remains face-up on the field, Trap Cards cannot be activated. The effects of all face-up Trap Cards are negated."


consider this situation:
Player A activates "Waboku"
Player B activates CotH and targets Jinzo
Palyer A activates "Emergency Provision" and sends "Waboku" to the GY as a cost.
Neither player chains.

Resolution:
CL3: Player A gains 1000 LP
CL2: Jinzo is special summoned in ATK pos, but but does not negate "Waboku" becaus it is not face up in the field.
CL1: "Waboku" resolves.


This is sort of different from the MST situation becuase if MST was played instead of EP, "Waboku" would still be face-up in the field. Does this makes sense?

Is there a ruling about this situation, or do we have to ask the Judge's List?
 
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The ruling says that the effect is still on the field, and will get negated.

This is different from the Monster ruling with Skill Drain, as... well, monster and magic/trap is different.
 
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Raigekick said:
Jinzo's effect is "As long as this card remains face-up on the field, Trap Cards cannot be activated. The effects of all face-up Trap Cards are negated."


consider this situation:
Player A activates "Waboku"
Player B activates CotH and targets Jinzo
Palyer A activates "Emergency Provision" and sends "Waboku" to the GY as a cost.
Neither player chains.

Resolution:
CL3: Player A gains 1000 LP
CL2: Jinzo is special summoned in ATK pos, but but does not negate "Waboku" becaus it is not face up in the field.
CL1: "Waboku" resolves.


This is sort of different from the MST situation becuase if MST was played instead of EP, "Waboku" would still be face-up in the field. Does this makes sense?

Is there a ruling about this situation, or do we have to ask the Judge's List?
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There was an example that Kevin had outlined that involved Mirror Force in a similar situation on the old Board. However, unfortunately that is now gone...so we are a bit stuck.

This is why i keep pushing the idea that Spell/Trap Cards in relation to their effects operate differently than Monster Cards in relation to their effects.

It would take a long, and probably inaccurate, very confusing explaination to clarify it... i will try to be short....

In general, as long as the Non-Continuous Trap Card was activated on the field (face-up at some point), its effect will be negated by Jinzo's effect if he is face-up before the effect resolves into play. It doesn't matter what happens to the card after it releases the effect (is activated).

The same logic also applies to Royal Decree, Spell Canceller and Imperial Order. Skill Drain is unique and it operates differently because it deals with Monster Cards and Effects.

Hope that helps
 
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