botomless trap hole and command knight...

cuzwbd

New Member
why does bottomless trap hole work on command knight?
it is 1200 atk and gains (&gives) 400 atk after summoning...bottomless would then be activated in response to the lifepoint gain and miss its timing ( like when goldd/sillva are summoned & get their effect) searching for logic...
bd
 
if you summon command knight your opponent can play
bottomless trap hole to destroy you're as it has more than 1500 atk points.
command knight gets it atk increase as soon as it hits the field and playing bottomless trap is in response to the summon of
command knight thats why you can use bottomless trap hole on it.
 
hmmmm.....
you cannot chain to a summon...(only respond...)
hmmmm.....
you cannot chain to a continuous effect monsters' effect when it is summoned....which means that ....bth should not work...something happens after summoning...timing is missed...you should need something that negates.....spell speed 3....seems like the jinzo example should apply here too... i can live with it but i am not getting why...marauding sp summons command... because atk is 1200 - at time of summon increases by 400 (something else did happen...)it's a response to atk increase not summon - conditions were not correct when summoned...
 
You do not respond to Continuous Monster Effects. They simple "become active" when they hit the field. There is no activation, resolution and as such, not response or chain point. Continuous Effects are simply there or they aren't.

If I told you could ONLY respond to the activation or deactivation of a lamp while it was inside the room you were in, then you could only respond to the lamp being turned on or off. Now if I walk into the room with an already lit lamp, you could not respond because the lamp was never turned on in this room. You can't respond to me leaving the room with the lit lamp either, because the light was never turned off in the room. It simply was dark, got light and then got dark again. Nothing was turned on or off.

As such, there is no response point continuous modifiers. Jinzo does apply here, but not for the reasons your suggesting. When you summon a monster with a Continuous Effect, your bringing a lit lamp into a room. You can still respond to the summon, but there is no activation point for the continuous effect. It simply is. It immediately is. The reason you cannot respond to Jinzo with Bottomless Trap Hole has nothing to do with timing. It's because Jinzo effect is immediately active. If Bottomless Trap Hole was a Quick-Spell Card then you COULD respond to his summon with it. In fact, you can respond to Jinzo's summon with any Quick-Play Spell Card, like Offerings to the Doomed.

Also, the "Summon Response Timing" (for lack of an official term) cannot be interrupted, unless it was brought out in the middle of a resolving chain. When you Normal Summon a monster (or when the last link in a chain summons a monster), a response point is created. No effect will interrupt the response point. Continuous Effects simply become active. Any effect that require actual activation, will be activated in response to the summon. The chain created in response to the summon, can have three Bottomless Trap Holes and two Torrential Tributes and no timing will be missed for any of them.
 
Digital Jedi said:
You do not respond to Continuous Monster Effects. They simple "become active" when they hit the field. There is no activation, resolution and as such, not response or chain point. Continuous Effects are simply there or they aren't.

If I told you could ONLY respond to the activation or deactivation of a lamp while it was inside the room you were in, then you could only respond to the lamp being turned on or off. Now if I walk into the room with an already lit lamp, you could not respond because the lamp was never turned on in this room. You can't respond to me leaving the room with the lit lamp either, because the light was never turned off in the room. It simply was dark, got light and then got dark again. Nothing was turned on or off.

As such, there is no response point continuous modifiers. Jinzo does apply here, but not for the reasons your suggesting. When you summon a monster with a Continuous Effect, your bringing a lit lamp into a room. You can still respond to the summon, but there is no activation point for the continuous effect. It simply is. It immediately is. The reason you cannot respond to Jinzo with Bottomless Trap Hole has nothing to do with timing. It's because Jinzo effect is immediately active. If Bottomless Trap Hole was a Quick-Spell Card then you COULD respond to his summon with it. In fact, you can respond to Jinzo's summon with any Quick-Play Spell Card, like Offerings to the Doomed.

Also, the "Summon Response Timing" (for lack of an official term) cannot be interrupted, unless it was brought out in the middle of a resolving chain. When you Normal Summon a monster (or when the last link in a chain summons a monster), a response point is created. No effect will interrupt the response point. Continuous Effects simply become active. Any effect that require actual activation, will be activated in response to the summon. The chain created in response to the summon, can have three Bottomless Trap Holes and two Torrential Tributes and no timing will be missed for any of them.

I always liked the "bringing a lit lamp into a dark room" statement and it made it easier for me to understand continuous versus activated effects. Continuous effects are already there when the monster is summoned and as such, BTH and Torrential Tribute cannot be used against Jinzo. The only two traps available to destroy Jinzo are Horn of Heaven and Solemn Judgement. I'm not sure about the new traps that just came out with EOJ. Same goes for Command Knight as it has a Continuous effect and is already there when the card is summoned. Like DJ's example- Command Knight is not like an unlit lamp that you bring into the room and then turn on. It hits the field with 1600 ATK as soon as it's summoned. It's effect of increasing all other warriors is an effect that becomes active after it's summoned but again, it hits the field at 1600 ATK- NOT 1200
 
HorusMaster said:
I always liked the "bringing a lit lamp into a dark room" statement and it made it easier for me to understand continuous versus activated effects. Continuous effects are already there when the monster is summoned and as such, BTH and Torrential Tribute cannot be used against Jinzo. The only two traps available to destroy Jinzo are Horn of Heaven and Solemn Judgement. I'm not sure about the new traps that just came out with EOJ. Same goes for Command Knight as it has a Continuous effect and is already there when the card is summoned. Like DJ's example- Command Knight is not like an unlit lamp that you bring into the room and then turn on. It hits the field with 1600 ATK as soon as it's summoned. It's effect of increasing all other warriors is an effect that becomes active after it's summoned but again, it hits the field at 1600 ATK- NOT 1200
I keep trying to search for illustrations that help accurately explain certain things. I remember novastar's (at least I think it was nova) example of a resolving card in the chain being like a 1-shot pistol. They can shoot each other, but they can't shoot themselves, which is why MST cannot destroy itself, or why Giant Trunade cannot return itself to the hand. They are also empty guns or "shells" sitting on the chain until the chain resolves. That was the first time I ever heard the chain fully and clearly explained in a way I could completely understand and then later explain to others. Illustrations are a great teaching tool. I keep trying to find ways to use them without making the illustration a stretch. :)
 
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