Confused on a article I read

[Tiso]

http://metagame.com/yugioh.aspx?tabid=33&ArticleId=5595

To Protect a Special Summon Effect

Ever play Return from the Different Dimensionjavascript:DisplayCard('/includes/viewcard.aspx?cid=347706')? Let's see, you have, and you have, and that other guy has too! And if you haven't, you've used Call of the Haunted, right? What do all of you hate? You hate bringing all those monsters to the field, only to lose them to Torrential Tributejavascript:DisplayCard('/includes/viewcard.aspx?cid=393150') or Bottomless Trap Holejavascript:DisplayCard('/includes/viewcard.aspx?cid=229078'), right? Sure you do. Did you know that you can avoid that with a simple chaining trick?



Here's the deal. Your opponent can only activate one of those cards when the last thing to happen was the summoning of a monster, right? Right! So take a moment to think this over. What can you do to prevent the last thing that happened in the game from being a special summon? You can chain the special summon effect to something else! How about Smashing Ground? Or your Nobleman of Crossoutjavascript:DisplayCard('/includes/viewcard.aspx?cid=460774')? First, activate an effect"”just about any effect will do, as long as it doesn't result in a summon"”and then chain your Return or Call. (Of course, your opponent has a chance to respond in between. This is very important, so don't forget it.) Your summoning effect will resolve first, followed by the first effect you activated"”which will be the last thing to happen, and therefore blocks Torrential Tribute or Bottomless Trap Holejavascript:DisplayCard('/includes/viewcard.aspx?cid=229078'). Oh, you are sneaky.


Now my question is, WHAT? Since when has this been true? I mean I know for a fact that something is fishy about this. I know for example I summon a monster, and then activate some effect my opponent will either try to negate my effect or do something about my monster or whatever. You know what I mean. Maybe it is because I got a headache right now and my brain is out for the night, but since when does activating Smashing Ground, then chaining Call of the Haunted equal safe haven from those cards?

 

[skey23]

Ok, but reversed if my opponent does not chain and I get Call of the Haunted activated in that scenario, then he uses Dust Tornado on my Snatch Steal. It would resolve with Dust destroying the Snatch, then Call summoning. Then will those cards be used like Torrential?

Yup, that would work out just fine!

 

[drzero7]

How about ignition/cost monster effects.

Say I summon Chaos Sorcerer, I use it's effect in priority and remove a monster on the field. Can I chain that effect with CotH/RftDD? What about Zaborg, or Mobius, or Blowback Dragon?

 

[blade146]

How about ignition/cost monster effects.

Say I summon Chaos Sorcerer, I use it's effect in priority and remove a monster on the field. Can I chain that effect with CotH/RftDD? What about Zaborg, or Mobius, or Blowback Dragon?

If timed right you can but your opponent can actually mess this up if they play it right. If you summon Chaos Sorcerer and use its effect then pass to your opponent they can then activate TT or BTH. If you activate CotH/RftDD after this you will lose your entire field anyways. Because TT or BTH resolves after CotH/RftDD.

The other option works about the same way. If you summon then activate the effect. Priority passes to your opponent. They can then pass. After that you can activate CotH/RftDD. They still have the option to activate TT or BTH. The only difference here is that you only lose the first summoned monster not the ones that were summoned off of CotH/RftDD.

 

[Wind_Master_Hanna]

http://metagame.com/yugioh.aspx?tabid=33&ArticleId=5595

To Protect a Special Summon Effect

Ever play Return from the Different Dimensionjavascript:DisplayCard('/includes/viewcard.aspx?cid=347706')? Let's see, you have, and you have, and that other guy has too! And if you haven't, you've used Call of the Haunted, right? What do all of you hate? You hate bringing all those monsters to the field, only to lose them to Torrential Tributejavascript:DisplayCard('/includes/viewcard.aspx?cid=393150') or Bottomless Trap Holejavascript:DisplayCard('/includes/viewcard.aspx?cid=229078'), right? Sure you do. Did you know that you can avoid that with a simple chaining trick?



Here's the deal. Your opponent can only activate one of those cards when the last thing to happen was the summoning of a monster, right? Right! So take a moment to think this over. What can you do to prevent the last thing that happened in the game from being a special summon? You can chain the special summon effect to something else! How about Smashing Ground? Or your Nobleman of Crossoutjavascript:DisplayCard('/includes/viewcard.aspx?cid=460774')? First, activate an effect"”just about any effect will do, as long as it doesn't result in a summon"”and then chain your Return or Call. (Of course, your opponent has a chance to respond in between. This is very important, so don't forget it.) Your summoning effect will resolve first, followed by the first effect you activated"”which will be the last thing to happen, and therefore blocks Torrential Tribute or Bottomless Trap Holejavascript:DisplayCard('/includes/viewcard.aspx?cid=229078'). Oh, you are sneaky.


Now my question is, WHAT? Since when has this been true? I mean I know for a fact that something is fishy about this. I know for example I summon a monster, and then activate some effect my opponent will either try to negate my effect or do something about my monster or whatever. You know what I mean. Maybe it is because I got a headache right now and my brain is out for the night, but since when does activating Smashing Ground, then chaining Call of the Haunted equal safe haven from those cards?

So kewly-o!

 

[drzero7]

If timed right you can but your opponent can actually mess this up if they play it right. If you summon Chaos Sorcerer and use its effect then pass to your opponent they can then activate TT or BTH. If you activate CotH/RftDD after this you will lose your entire field anyways. Because TT or BTH resolves after CotH/RftDD.

The other option works about the same way. If you summon then activate the effect. Priority passes to your opponent. They can then pass. After that you can activate CotH/RftDD. They still have the option to activate TT or BTH. The only difference here is that you only lose the first summoned monster not the ones that were summoned off of CotH/RftDD.

Another words, you cannot "Chain" to the effect to the monster effect. You use the monster effect in priority and that's it and I cannot link that to the chain. BTH/TT can "respond" to the summon but cannot be chained to. And thus why I was asking this question.

 

[skey23]

Another words, you cannot "Chain" to the effect to the monster effect. You use the monster effect in priority and that's it and I cannot link that to the chain. BTH/TT can "respond" to the summon but cannot be chained to. And thus why I was asking this question.

Huh?

You most certainly CAN chain to the monster effect.
And you most certainly CAN chain to either "Torrential Tribute" or "Bottomless Trap Hole".

I'm not entirely sure of what you were getting at with this post.

 

[Digital Jedi]

Another words, you cannot "Chain" to the effect to the monster effect. You use the monster effect in priority and that's it and I cannot link that to the chain. BTH/TT can "respond" to the summon but cannot be chained to. And thus why I was asking this question.

The very first effect activated in response to the summon, whether it was the Turn Player using his priority to activate an Ignition Effect, or the non-Turn Player activating a Spell Speed 2 effect, is the first link in a chain that is in response to the summon. All cards that are placed in that chain are on response to the summon. So cards like Torrential Tribute or anything with the summon response timing can be placed here and chained to each other. You could chain three Bottomless Trap Holes to each other and none of them would miss their timing or be illegal activations.

 

[skey23]

All cards that are placed in that chain are on response to the summon.

That's not entirely true...lol.

While the chain is commonly referred to as the Summon Response Chain, it doesn't mean that every effect being placed in that chain is in response to the Summon.

You can certainly respond to the activation of an effect being placed in the chain, and your response has absolutely nothing to do with the monster being summoned.

Example...

P1 Summons a monster.
P2 responds with "Bottomless Trap Hole".
P1 chains "Compulsory Evacuation Device" targeting P2's monster.
P2 chains "Enemy Controller", choosing 2nd effect and offering their monster to take control of the Summoned monster.
P1 chains "Book of Moon" targeting their Summoned monster.
P2 chains "Torrential Tribute".
P1 doesn't add anything.
P2 doesn't add anything.
Resolve chain....

Now, how many items in the Summon Response Chain were actually in direct response to the Summon?

 

[Digital Jedi]

From a technical standpoint, all the card where activated in response to the summon, which is different from affecting the summon. "In response" simply means "in reaction to".

 

[skey23]

From a technical standpoint, all the card where activated in response to the summon, which is different from affecting the summon. "In response" simply means "in reaction to".

Again, not true...lol.

"Compulsory Evacuation Device" was activated in reaction to "Bottomless Trap Hole".
"Enemy Controller" was activated in reaction to "Compulsory Evacuation Device".
"Book of Moon" was activated in reaction to "Enemy Controller".

None of those were activated in reaction to the Summon in any way. They were activated in reaction to the effect placed in the chain before them.

My whole point is that even though everything is part of the Summon Response chain, not everything in that chain is in response/reaction to that summon.

Both players can either respond/react to the Summon, or to an effect placed in the chain, or just activate something randomly that has nothing to do with either (provided the timing is correct).

The term Summon Response Chain basically just means that timing is not going to be missed for effects that specifically respond to that summon.

 

[Digital Jedi]

Then we might be suffering from a case of Tomayto/Tomahto here. It seems to me that if we're going to call it a "response chain", that chaining anything to it is in response to the summon. Building a chain in reponse to the summon, in my mind, places each link in response to the summon, barring the usual responses that are labled "chaining".