frostmonarch
New Member
Can my opponent activate Crystal Abundance when Necrovalley is on the field?
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Crystal Abundance vs. Necrovalley
- Thread starter frostmonarch
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krishna
CoG iTrader
"Necrovalley" will NOT negate effects that are activated when a card is sent TO the Graveyard or that activate IN the Graveyard or that count cards in the Graveyard. "Necrovalley" negates any effect that targets a card or cards in the Graveyard.
I'm not 100% sure if Crystal Abundance "targets", since you can choose yourself any crystal beasts you want.
I'm going to saythat you can activate Crystal Abundance, but hopefully we can also get someone else who is 100% sure on this.
I'm not 100% sure if Crystal Abundance "targets", since you can choose yourself any crystal beasts you want.
I'm going to saythat you can activate Crystal Abundance, but hopefully we can also get someone else who is 100% sure on this.
HorusMaster
New Member
krishna said:
Sorry but you cannot activate Crystal Abundance since it targets cards that are in the graveyard.
Since when does Crystal Abundance target anything? Not to mention it's effect is 2 parts the first of which sends everything to the Graveyard. At that point Necrovalley is in the Graveyard so it wouldn't matter anyway.
redlordofvampires
New Member
Crystal abundance:
send 4 Crystal beast cards from your spell and trap zone to the grave yard. Send all cards on the field to the graveyard.
These are the 1st 2 sentances, so by reading the text you met the requirement to send 4 cards to graveyard to destroy the field or send all cards on the field to graveyard which necrovalley willbe in the graveyard and now you can complete the rest of crystal abundance effect without necrovalley interferring.
send 4 Crystal beast cards from your spell and trap zone to the grave yard. Send all cards on the field to the graveyard.
These are the 1st 2 sentances, so by reading the text you met the requirement to send 4 cards to graveyard to destroy the field or send all cards on the field to graveyard which necrovalley willbe in the graveyard and now you can complete the rest of crystal abundance effect without necrovalley interferring.
So which part of Crystal Abundance is the cost? Looks to me like just the sending of the "Crystal Beast" cards is the cost. In which case, Necrovalley would be sent to the Graveyard during the resolution of Crystal Abundance.
Continuous effects, such as Field Spell Cards, cannot deactivate in the middle of a Chain Link. It must wait for a gap between Chain Links in order to switch off.
Therefore, you cannot Special Summon any "Crystal Beast" monsters, because the effect of Necrovalley is still protecting the Graveyards.
Is how I see it.
Continuous effects, such as Field Spell Cards, cannot deactivate in the middle of a Chain Link. It must wait for a gap between Chain Links in order to switch off.
Therefore, you cannot Special Summon any "Crystal Beast" monsters, because the effect of Necrovalley is still protecting the Graveyards.
Is how I see it.
redlordofvampires
New Member
Nope, reason is you can't special summon any crystal beast until everything is off the field which willbe the 3rd part of the chain of the crystal abundance. The cost is the sending of the crystal beast to the graveyard, then you send all cards to the field, then you can special summon the crystal beast. So thats your 3 part to the card and how it all works. SO after you send the cards on the field, now you can special summon ( which necrovalley is in the graveyard at this time, so how could necrovalley effect the graveyard when it's in the graveyard itself. No where on necrovalley does it say it continues to effect the graveyard while it's in the graveyard.
If you do it all as the cards says and not skip a step then there shouldn't be any problems. Cause before you can destroy the field you have to send 4 crystal beast to the graveyard and before you can special summon any crystal beast out of the graveyard, you HAVE to send ALL cards to the graveyard. Hope that helps.
If you do it all as the cards says and not skip a step then there shouldn't be any problems. Cause before you can destroy the field you have to send 4 crystal beast to the graveyard and before you can special summon any crystal beast out of the graveyard, you HAVE to send ALL cards to the graveyard. Hope that helps.
RedLord, if a Continuous/Equip/Field card is destroyed, its effect continues until the end of the chain link.
For Crystal Abundance, even though Necrovalley is in the Graveyard by the time the "Special Summon as many...." effect comes around, Necrovalley is still active. It can't "de-activate" until Crystal Abundance finishes resolving.
Because of this, you can't Special Summon anything.
For Crystal Abundance, even though Necrovalley is in the Graveyard by the time the "Special Summon as many...." effect comes around, Necrovalley is still active. It can't "de-activate" until Crystal Abundance finishes resolving.
Because of this, you can't Special Summon anything.
redlordofvampires
New Member
Well ok if you guys say so then it must not work. I still don't think necrovalley when it's in the graveyard works. I don't see how it can. I say it has room for debate since each sentance has it's own function. Right now there is only 1 ruling on the card so far. I say good luck to the head judge for this one.
Of course Necrovalley doesn't have an effect when it's in the Graveyard. Very few cards do, and they specifically say so.
The explanation of why this situation works the way it does is because of the nature of continuous effects. They cannot end in the middle of resolving a Chain Link. It's hard to think of a different example to this one, though (I'm not working at high speed at the moment).
You activate Crystal Abundance, and send your "Crystal Beast" cards to the Graveyard. Then cards can be Chained, and then the Chain is resolved in reverse order. When it comes to Crystal Abundance, all cards on the field are sent to the Graveyard (including Necrovalley), and you Special Summon your "Crystal Beast" monsters.
The effect of Necrovalley (all of it: the Graveyard thing and the power boost to "Gravekeeper's") CANNOT end in the middle of resolving a Chain Link. That is, it CANNOT end between the sending of all cards and the Special Summon. And since it was still active at the start of the resolution of the Chain Link, its effect has to remain active until the end of that Chain Link, regardless of what the card itself does in the middle of said Link. That's just how continuous effects work. It's part of the definition.
The explanation of why this situation works the way it does is because of the nature of continuous effects. They cannot end in the middle of resolving a Chain Link. It's hard to think of a different example to this one, though (I'm not working at high speed at the moment).
You activate Crystal Abundance, and send your "Crystal Beast" cards to the Graveyard. Then cards can be Chained, and then the Chain is resolved in reverse order. When it comes to Crystal Abundance, all cards on the field are sent to the Graveyard (including Necrovalley), and you Special Summon your "Crystal Beast" monsters.
The effect of Necrovalley (all of it: the Graveyard thing and the power boost to "Gravekeeper's") CANNOT end in the middle of resolving a Chain Link. That is, it CANNOT end between the sending of all cards and the Special Summon. And since it was still active at the start of the resolution of the Chain Link, its effect has to remain active until the end of that Chain Link, regardless of what the card itself does in the middle of said Link. That's just how continuous effects work. It's part of the definition.
You again are assuming that the resolution of Crystal Abundance is all 1 effect. That is incorrect. There are several cards out there that have multiple parts to resolving. Last Turn is the most obvious, but if you want a non-banned card, let's take a look at Reload.
Reload
Quick-Play Spell
Add all cards in your hand to your Deck and shuffle it. Then draw the same number of cards that you added to your Deck.
Reload has no cost. It's resolution lets you add your hand back to your deck, shuffle, and then draw the same number of cards that you added back. Now if this was all 1 effect, then the following ruling would not be correct:
"¢ [Re: Protector of the Sanctuary] If "Call of the Haunted" is chained to "Reload" to Special Summon "Protector of the Sanctuary", your opponent adds his hand to his Deck and shuffles it, but "Protector of the Sanctuary" prevents him from drawing.
The key here is that Protector of the Sanctuary is not on the field to start with (since then Reload couldn't be activated outside of the Draw Phase). But once Reload is activated and in the same chain, Protector of the Sanctuary comes face up on the field, now we have to take a closer look at Reload.
Add all cards from your hand to your Deck and Shuffle it.
So far so good. If you notice though that's still doable.
Then draw the same number of cards that you added to your Deck.
Here is where the issue with Protector comes in. If we're not in the Draw Phase, we can't draw any cards. So this part of the effect is otherwise squashed and my opponent is left with no cards in hand. That word THEN in the effect is telling you that the resolution of Reload has multiple parts to it and not merely 1 uninterruptable effect. (Note, not all cards with multiple parts have "then" in the text, but those that do are pretty much a good indication that the card does have multiple parts).
So let's look at Crystal Abundance.
Crystal Abundance
Normal Spell
Send 4 "Crystal Beast" cards from your Spell & Trap Card Zone to the Graveyard. Send all cards on the field to the Graveyard. Then, Special Summon as many "Crystal Beast" monsters as possible from your Graveyard, up to the number of your opponent's cards that were sent to the Graveyard by this card's effect.
Ok, this card has a cost (Sending 4 Crystal Beasts to the GY from the S/T zone). That's not an Issue. Now we resolve.
Send all cards on the field to the Graveyard.
No problem there. Necrovalley would be washed away here so the field is completely open.
Then, Special Summon as many "Crystal Beast" monsters as possible from your Graveyard, up to the number of your opponent's cards that were sent to the Graveyard by this card's effect.
There's that "then" again. Is there anything here from stopping us from Special Summoning? Well not unless something like "Non Aggression Area" was already activated since there's NOTHING ON THE FIELD at this point that would stop us. And sorry, but Continuous Effects do end the moment they leave the field which is why Crystal Abundance can complete all the steps to its resolution since there's nothing left to prevent it by the time you reach that last step.
Reload
Quick-Play Spell
Add all cards in your hand to your Deck and shuffle it. Then draw the same number of cards that you added to your Deck.
Reload has no cost. It's resolution lets you add your hand back to your deck, shuffle, and then draw the same number of cards that you added back. Now if this was all 1 effect, then the following ruling would not be correct:
"¢ [Re: Protector of the Sanctuary] If "Call of the Haunted" is chained to "Reload" to Special Summon "Protector of the Sanctuary", your opponent adds his hand to his Deck and shuffles it, but "Protector of the Sanctuary" prevents him from drawing.
The key here is that Protector of the Sanctuary is not on the field to start with (since then Reload couldn't be activated outside of the Draw Phase). But once Reload is activated and in the same chain, Protector of the Sanctuary comes face up on the field, now we have to take a closer look at Reload.
Add all cards from your hand to your Deck and Shuffle it.
So far so good. If you notice though that's still doable.
Then draw the same number of cards that you added to your Deck.
Here is where the issue with Protector comes in. If we're not in the Draw Phase, we can't draw any cards. So this part of the effect is otherwise squashed and my opponent is left with no cards in hand. That word THEN in the effect is telling you that the resolution of Reload has multiple parts to it and not merely 1 uninterruptable effect. (Note, not all cards with multiple parts have "then" in the text, but those that do are pretty much a good indication that the card does have multiple parts).
So let's look at Crystal Abundance.
Crystal Abundance
Normal Spell
Send 4 "Crystal Beast" cards from your Spell & Trap Card Zone to the Graveyard. Send all cards on the field to the Graveyard. Then, Special Summon as many "Crystal Beast" monsters as possible from your Graveyard, up to the number of your opponent's cards that were sent to the Graveyard by this card's effect.
Ok, this card has a cost (Sending 4 Crystal Beasts to the GY from the S/T zone). That's not an Issue. Now we resolve.
Send all cards on the field to the Graveyard.
No problem there. Necrovalley would be washed away here so the field is completely open.
Then, Special Summon as many "Crystal Beast" monsters as possible from your Graveyard, up to the number of your opponent's cards that were sent to the Graveyard by this card's effect.
There's that "then" again. Is there anything here from stopping us from Special Summoning? Well not unless something like "Non Aggression Area" was already activated since there's NOTHING ON THE FIELD at this point that would stop us. And sorry, but Continuous Effects do end the moment they leave the field which is why Crystal Abundance can complete all the steps to its resolution since there's nothing left to prevent it by the time you reach that last step.
deck blacksmith nº1
New Member
i have a question. how can this effect target if you can't know how many of your opponent cards will be sent to graveyard by this effect? And, if it doesn't target, Necrovalley shoudn't negate any part of the crystal abundance's effect
redlordofvampires
New Member
Thank you, I doubted myself there but I still didn't believe the whole necrovalley being in graveyard still effect the field crap.
Certainly I agree with the emboldened part, but surely the entire card effect happens during the resolution of the Chain Link? You can't compare it to Last Turn, because that's a special case card that does things after the resolution.densetsu_x said:
And since continuous effects (such as Necrovalley's Graveyard thing) cannot switch off during the resolution of a Chain Link, this means Necrovalley is still in effect until the end of the resolution of Crystal Abundance.
I simply can't see the logic you're using here. The "full stop, 'Then,' <do something>" means you can still resolve part of the effect if you cannot resolve the rest, as evidenced by the ruling about how you can still activate it if your opponent has no cards. Cards like Book of Life just have the one effect, and it's all or nothing. It's simply a case of "resolve as much as possible", which is also seen in the case of Reload and Magical Dimension.
As long as you can do at least one of the listed effects on a card (separated by full stops from other effects the card may have - Reload, Magical Dimension), then you can activate it.
Are you saying that continuous effects can switch off in the middle of a Chain Link resolution? Because that's the only way to explain your answer. I was always told that wasn't possible, that continuous effects switch off ONLY between Chain Links, not bang in the middle of them. You tell me that's wrong, and give an example of it (not your Reload, because that's an example of "resolve as much as possible of a list of effects separated by full stops"), and you'll convince me.
Again, you're assumption is incorrect. I cannot activate Reload while Protector of the Sanctuary is face-up on the field even though I can still do "part" of the effect.
However, since again you want "proof" on something that you've already been given (just because you don't accept it isn't my problem), let's simplify this really easily.
"¢ "Necrovalley" will NOT negate effects that do not target a card or cards in the Graveyard. So "Necrovalley" will NOT negate the effects of "Dark Necrofear" (when destroyed and sent to the Graveyard), "Revival Jam", "Winged Sage Falcos", "Twin-Headed Behemoth", "Mystical Knight of Jackal", and "Red-Moon Baby".
Crystal Abundance DOES NOT TARGET any cards in the Graveyard, so Necrovalley would have no effect on it no matter how you spin it.
Better?
However, since again you want "proof" on something that you've already been given (just because you don't accept it isn't my problem), let's simplify this really easily.
"¢ "Necrovalley" will NOT negate effects that do not target a card or cards in the Graveyard. So "Necrovalley" will NOT negate the effects of "Dark Necrofear" (when destroyed and sent to the Graveyard), "Revival Jam", "Winged Sage Falcos", "Twin-Headed Behemoth", "Mystical Knight of Jackal", and "Red-Moon Baby".
Crystal Abundance DOES NOT TARGET any cards in the Graveyard, so Necrovalley would have no effect on it no matter how you spin it.
Better?
If you'd just said that, there wouldn't have been that discussion about it.densetsu_x said:
I overlooked that, and assumed it targeted when I wrote what I did. If it DID target, I'm sure my responses would have been correct. At least let me have that. Please?
densetsu_x said:
Actually I did say that to start with.
Not to mention Simon repeated that it doesn't target a few posts later.
Yeah, okay, enough of making me look silly.densetsu_x said:Actually I did say that to start with.
Not to mention Simon repeated that it doesn't target a few posts later.
skey23 said:
There's a whole gap between the activation and the resolution of Reversal Quiz, during which time the continuous effect of Convulsion of Nature can switch off.
I can think of Protector of the Sanctuary and Fiber Jar, and I'm sure only I would get to draw (assuming we're outside of the Draw Phase).