Dark World vs. Disappear

Dillie-O

Dillie-O

Council of Heroes
This one was being pondered in the Lair and I honestly am not sure of the result...

If a DW monster is discarded by effect to the Graveyard, can the opponent play a S/T to RFP the DW monster from the GY before it is returned to the field? (If I flip Morphing Jar and my opponent discards Goldd, is there a point where I could play a set Fiend Comedian or Disappear to RFP Goldd before he is Special Summoned to the field?)

My initial though was no, Fiend Comedian or Disappear won't prevent the special summoning because the effect was already activated and its targeting itself, but I'm not sure on this one.

Insights?
 
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True, I know the Dark Worlders are tirgger effects, and I know that if you Disappear a card targeted by say Premature Burial that the effect will resolve without effect, but since the Dark World monster targets itself for revival and the effect has been activated, does that mean that simply Shifting the location of where the card is when it resolves become moot?

On on the converse, is Goldd effectively targeting itself, but since the effect is in the graveyard and when it resolves Goldd is now out of play the effect Disappears.

That's the part where I'm not sure if I'm overanalyzing or not 8^D I was hoping there was a Necrofear vs. Fiend Comedian/Disappear ruling, but alas there wasn't. 8^D
 
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If Goldd is removed from play when his Special Summoning effect activate, then he will not be Special Summoned to the field. Think of Vampire Lord and Sacred Phoenix in that scenario.

Now for when Goldd is discarded by a opponent's card effect, the secondary effect of Goldd won't activate if Goldd isn't Special Summoned.

Disappear will force Goldd's secondary effect to resolve without effect/dissappear (don't know which term fits best here).
 
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Tkwiget said:
Doesn't matter who controls the discard effect. Fiend Comedian and Disappear will resolve before Goldd does.
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Disappear
Normal Trap
Remove from play 1 card from your opponent's Graveyard.

I was merely stating it from the opponents perspective because only the opponent would be able to remove Goldd with Disappear and Fiend Comedian.

And the secondary effect wont even resolve if he isnt Special Summoned. I think its more akin to it cant happen to Disappear or resolve without effect since it is dependent on the summon.
 
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So let me build the chain and see if I've got it right.

Chain Link 1: Goldd
Chain Link 2: Disappear, targeting Goldd

Resolve 1: Disappears removes Goldd from play.
Resolve 2: Goldd special summons itself to the field and destroys up to two cards. -- Problem: Goldd is now in the RFP pile and is not eligible to to be special summoned to the field, so both the special summoning and the card destuction effects fail to resolve.

I guess I just wasn't sure if the removal from play AFTER the effect has been activated was enough to prohibit the resolution of the effect. I know if you RFP a Phoenix, VLord, etc. before their effects even activate that they can't come back, but I wasn't sure of the Dark Worlders since they were self targeting and had already activated their effect.
 
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ancient_duelist said:
They will not get the chance to remove any because all 6 monsters (both opponents have 3) will activate at the same time and become an SEGOC event. Disappear will not be able to interrupt the resolution of that chain. If your opponent chains Disappear to the activation of Morphing Jar, the monsters are not even in the Graveyard yet.
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Oh, but they CAN remove a monster with "Disappear". Remember, the SEGOC chain must build 1st, then both players can respond to the SEGOC chain with Appropriate effects (like "Disappear"). Once all effects have been added to this MASSIVE chain, then you begin resolving it...lol. Now, what I'd REALLY like to see is somebody build the chain (anyway they choose) and then resolve it! That's always fun!
 
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skey23 said:
Now, what I'd REALLY like to see is somebody build the chain (anyway they choose) and then resolve it! That's always fun!
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I'm not gonna build the whole chain, but it would be the turn player's 3 Dark World Monsters first, followed by the opponent's 3 Dark World Monsters. If the turn player chains Disappear to the last event on the chain, he would be able to remove any of the 3 Dark World monsters in his opponent's Graveyard and Tkwiget was correct. Or am I missing something else (like that's never happened).
 
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skey23 said:
Are you sure about that?...lol
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I'm assuming Morphing Jar would be allowed to resolve.

Once Morphing Jar resolves, the chain block will look like this.

Link 1: Broww (Turn Player)
Link 2: Goldd (Turn Player)
Link 3: Sillva (Turn Player)
Link 4: Broww (Player B)
Link 5: Goldd (Player B)
Link 6: Sillva (Player B)
Link 7: Disappear (Turn Player)

That's the chain block. The effects of Dark World monsters are Trigger Effects and can be chained too. They activate their Trigger Effects in the Graveyard. The chain block doesn't resolve until both players decide not to chain any cards to the activation of Player B's last Dark World monster that's on the chain block.

EDIT: Argh, I need to learn to type faster...=P
 
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Tkwiget said:
I'm assuming Morphing Jar would be allowed to resolve.

Once Morphing Jar resolves, the chain block will look like this.

Link 1: Broww (Turn Player)
Link 2: Goldd (Turn Player)
Link 3: Sillva (Turn Player)
Link 4: Broww (Player B)
Link 5: Goldd (Player B)
Link 6: Sillva (Player B)
Link 7: Disappear (Turn Player)

That's the chain block. The effects of Dark World monsters are Trigger Effects and can be chained too. They activate their Trigger Effects in the Graveyard. The chain block doesn't resolve until both players decide not to chain any cards to the activation of Player B's last Dark World monster that's on the chain block.

EDIT: Argh, I need to learn to type faster...=P
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Sure, Morphing Jar has to resolve first or you get nothing to remove because only the flip effect activates if you chain to the effect with Disappear. When Disappear resolves you have not yet sent anything to the Graveyard. All cards are still in hand of both players.
 
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