"Divine Wrath" rulings (Not yet).

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densetsu_x

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"Divine Wrath" rulings (Not yet).

Since there are 2 threads debating how "Divine Wrath" works (though on different tangents, 1 in general, and 1 in regards to how "Sinister Serpent"'s effect operates), I just wanted to post a heads up to all the "Divine Wrath" questions that I took and posted asked on the mailing list.

I got a response back from Curtis that there is no word on the "Divine Wrath" rulings (including vs. "Sinister Serpent") currently.

My guess is that this all got forwarded to Konami to have them figure it out.

So in the meantime, that just leaves us with our own conjecture (aka "theory") on how to properly rule on this card. And let's face it... we will all be seeing this card heavily played.

I have my ideas on how I would rule some of the sticky subjects... and I know other people's opinion will vary (just look at the threads). The only thing is if you do rule 1 way, just stay consistant with that until we do have a definative answer.

- Andrew

P.S. For those wondering, I view "Divine Wrath" only to negate the effect at that one time of activation. Reason behind this, if you have "XYZ-Dragon Cannon" equipped with "Heavy Mech Support Platform" and you discard a card to destroy a card on the field and your opponent chains "Divine Wrath", the effect is negated and in this instance "Heavy Mech Support Platform" is destroyed in place of "XYZ-Dragon Cannon". Now, there's nothing stopping the player from activating "XYZ"'s effect again.

In the case of "Marie the Fallen One", that would be a trigger effect so "Divine Wrath" would negate her effect for this turn only... come next turn you would gain 200 life points again.

For "Sinister Serpent", well, the way they write one ruling makes it look like it's a Cost Effect while the way they write another ruling, it's a Trigger Effect. After thinking about it... I'm going to go with "Optional Trigger Effect" so "Divine Wrath" would negate grabbing "Sinister Serpent" for this 1 turn only. You can get him back next turn.

vs. "Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning" - you can use it again both of his effects. This is different from "Element Dragon" because "Element Dragon"'s effect of attacking twice is given within a continous effect (an effect as a result of an effect... ugly I know), while BLS's effects are a Cost and a Trigger. Yeah I know this last point will likely cause much disagreement, but again, this is just how I see it.

[Edited out the incorrect info]

Oh I so love this card...
 
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Re: "Divine Wrath" rulings (Not yet).

I've been doing some research on this today, and I'm pretty certain now that "Sinister Serpent" is a trigger effect (albeit an optional one). Look at these 2 cards as well:

"Marie the Fallen One". Now, if she's in the graveyard during the standby phase you would gain 200 life points. This is a definate trigger. Now say during your standby phase you activate "Mystical Space Typhoon" targeting your face down "Call of the Haunted". Then you chain "Call of the Haunted" and target "Marie the Fallen One". Look at what happens. Marie is special summoned to the field and then when MST destroys CotH, she goes back to the graveyard. Since it's still the standby phase, her effect will trigger again and you'd gain 200 life points.

Now take all those "gain 200 life points" and switch it with "return it to your hand" and you have "Sinister Serpent".

Also, take "Manticore of Darkness"... his effect is a trigger effect that activates in the end phase (though it's optional). Similar kind of condition. If it's the end phase of the turn he was sent there you can special summon it to the field (by offering the appropriate tribute).

So, looking at these, I would definately say that "Sinister Serpent" is a trigger effect which would therefore mean, if you chain "Divine Wrath" to it... you negate the ability to grab the Serpent from the graveyard for that turn. You'd need to wait until your next turn to fetch him.
 
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Re: "Divine Wrath" rulings (Not yet).

DaGuyWitBluGlasses said:
It doesn't matter if its not a continuous effect.

"The effect of "Sinister Serpent" may be used multiple times in the same Standby Phase." is in ARRJ
Click to expand...

This is true but you have to realize that is only so if "Sinister Serpent" leaves the graveyard and then is sent back there by whatever (say as a cost to activate "Raigeki Break", or as a choice from "Mirage of Nightmare").

Each time it re-enters the graveyard during the standby phase, his effect is triggered.

If the effect is negated by "Divine Wrath", you have to wait til next turn to get it.

- A
 
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Re: "Divine Wrath" rulings (Not yet).

Just thought I would point this out:

I remember there being a ruling that if "Dark Necrofear" is destroyed in the same turn she comes back, she does not get her effect. I used this logic to come up with the conclusion that if "Manticore of Darkness" is sent to the graveyard in the same endphase it comes back, it would not be able to activate its effect.

I'm using this logic to get to the fact that "Sinister Serpent" would not get its effect because it was negated in the same turn it was meant to come back.
 
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Re: "Divine Wrath" rulings (Not yet).

densetsu_x said:
This is true but you have to realize that is only so if "Sinister Serpent" leaves the graveyard and then is sent back there by whatever (say as a cost to activate "Raigeki Break", or as a choice from "Mirage of Nightmare").

Each time it re-enters the graveyard during the standby phase, his effect is triggered.

If the effect is negated by "Divine Wrath", you have to wait til next turn to get it.

- A
Click to expand...

Where is this ruling? The card states if it exists in the graveyard you may return it to your hand in the standby phase.  I would think this activates in the graveyard and not when it it sent there.
 
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Re: "Divine Wrath" rulings (Not yet).

Envoy of toilet said:
Just thought I would point this out:

I remember there being a ruling that if "Dark Necrofear" is destroyed in the same turn she comes back, she does not get her effect. I used this logic to come up with the conclusion that if "Manticore of Darkness" is sent to the graveyard in the same endphase it comes back, it would not be able to activate its effect.

I'm using this logic to get to the fact that "Sinister Serpent" would not get its effect because it was negated in the same turn it was meant to come back.
Click to expand...

The Manticore can be resent to the graveyard in the same endphase it comes back and have the effect activate again:

2 Manticore of Darkness + 1 Card of Safe Return = Draw your entire Deck (a combo which is allowed)

- A
 
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Re: "Divine Wrath" rulings (Not yet).

blade146 said:
densetsu_x said:
This is true but you have to realize that is only so if "Sinister Serpent" leaves the graveyard and then is sent back there by whatever (say as a cost to activate "Raigeki Break", or as a choice from "Mirage of Nightmare").

Each time it re-enters the graveyard during the standby phase, his effect is triggered

If the effect is negated by "Divine Wrath", you have to wait til next turn to get it.

- A
Click to expand...

Where is this ruling? The card states if it exists in the graveyard you may return it to your hand in the standby phase. I would think this activates in the graveyard and not when it it sent there.
Click to expand...

Yes his effect activates in the graveyard (which is why "The End of Anubis" can negate it while that is on the field). But if you activated his effect, you had to have gotten him out of the graveyard and then sent him back there in order to get him a second time.

I'm trying to look at this logically since there is no official ruling (hence why this thread was created). I am going with his effect is a trigger effect, not a cost effect for the purposes of the discussion since I believe his effect is triggered by him being in the graveyard and not something you manually activate. Because of that you have that 1 instance to get him. If it's negated with "Divine Wrath", then you have to wait til next turn to get him. If you did manage to get him out and you sent him back in, yes you can get him out again, and again, and again, etc. each time he's sent there in the same standby phase because the trigger conditions are met (He's in the graveyard during your standby phase.) But if that effect get's negated, the window for that turn has passed.

That's my take on it. Now if you want to debate "it's a cost effect, not a trigger effect", well, that's where the other thread comes into play and if that's your take by all means go for it. I just can't help but think it is a Trigger Effect based on other cards that activate "when they are in the graveyard during yoru standby phase" like "Marie the Fallen One".

- Andrew
 
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Re: "Divine Wrath" rulings (Not yet).

are we still talkin about sinister serpent? if were not.... dude... i am so lost.... o well.... sinister serpent is a graveyard effect that triggers during the standby phase and u can respond to or chain to the effect of sinister serpent, and since u can respond to this effect, the owner of sinister serpent does not retrive sinister serpent, until it has resolved first b4 the owner can get it back.... so... if it is true of what denetsu_x states that u can play divine wrath to sinister serpent effect, then hes right, u dont get it back till the next standby phase...

1. standby phase occurs and player A sinister serpent is in the graveyard and the effect activates
2. activates divine wrath and negates the activation of the effect

note that this works becuz the effect of sinister serpent can be responded or chained to.
 
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Re: "Divine Wrath" rulings (Not yet).

What about Peten the Dark Clown? If Divine Wrath is activated and stops peten's effect, and then destroys peten again, could'nt you use his effect since the last act to happen was that peten was destroyed?
 
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Re: "Divine Wrath" rulings (Not yet).

Since "Peten the Dark Clown's" effect activates in the graveyard, "Divine Wrath" would negate it, and since he is already in the graveyard, he wouldn't be "re-destroyed", so you do not get the effect.
 
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Re: "Divine Wrath" rulings (Not yet).

My bad, he would be removed from play because it is the cost, but even there he cannot be destroyed so you don't get the effect.

Thanks for pointing that out, because its been a long time since I've seen his text :)
 
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Re: "Divine Wrath" rulings (Not yet).

Dose Divine Wrath out right kill an effect monster when it is summond?
Or do you have to wait for the opponent to activate the effect?

Example:
Cannon Soldier is summond but he dose not activate its effect this turn.
 
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Re: "Divine Wrath" rulings (Not yet).

its when the monster activates the effect, aslong as its trigger/cost/ or multi trigger, then you can use devine wrath on it.

so say cannon soldier comes out or exiled force, until you decide to activate the effect Devine wrath wont activate. :)
 
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