Dragon's Mirror / Disappear

[John Danker]

I'm trying to get a handle on when Disappear makes certain cards resolve without effect....or when as much of the card's effect is carried out as possible.

In paticular the situation came up of using Disappear against Dragon's Mirror. If Disappear is chained to Dragon's Mirror then obviously there is no fusion summon, however, would the rest of the fusion material monsters be removed from play? Why or why not?

I'm looking for a template to use for when Disappear lets the card it's chained to carry out as much of the effect as possible or negates the effect it's chained to....any help here?

 

[Tkwiget]

John, I've learned to grin a lot since I've been judging. My cheeks hurt all the time too. =/

 

[Fury]

Well, from my understanding you can only target cards when:
- both players can verify the validity of the target.
- the card is on the field, grave or rfg area. (cards cant be targeted in the hand nor in the deck.)

So, Polymerization lets you fuse monsters from your hand too => doesnt target.
Dragon's Mirror/Miracle Fusion/Overload Fusion only fuse monsters from the field and grave => target.
Blowback Dragon selects a card from the field => targets.
Magical Dimension selects a monster on the field, BUT you only decide to use that part of the effect at resolution => cant target.
Premature/Call/Monster Reborn select form grave => targets.
Mystic Tomato/Sangan select from deck => dont target.
Miraculous Descent selects from RFG => targets.

Late than never: cards can target the grave, read The End of Anubis. It specifically negates those. Necrovalley too.

Also if a card says:
"Destroy 1 card on the field."
Does it target or not? It targets because you have to select the card and you select from the field.
"Remove 1 card in either graveyard from play."
Targets, because you have to select the affected card, and you select from the grave.
"Special Summon 1 monster from your deck."
Doesnt target because you select the card from your deck.

I hope these help. These guidelines apply most of the time. Right now no exception comes to mind, but there are surely some - as this is Yu-Gi-Oh!.

 

[ygo doc]

...It would seem that every time a card comes out we have to ask the judge list, "Does this card target? If so at activation or resolution?" Since there are no rulings on Dragon's Mirror I'm at a loss to know which. As you can tell this frustrates me to no end.

There are rulings on the UDE FAQ regarding Dragon's Mirror; unfortunately, not for this card interaction. As you know, it does target.

I remember this ruling, but since the player appealed, it was left to you. Pot of Avarice is the closest related card effect with a ruling; therefore, if Disappear removes one of the targeted cards, then no monsters are removed and no fusion monster summoned. This exact same question came up with Overload Fusion and Disappear.

I agree the translated text does NOT make it clear if the card targets at activation or resolution; however, if you KNOW the card does target and the effects are tied together with the word "and", then I infer that if you can't execute one part of the effect, you can't do the other. The "and" also tells us, this part of the effect is NOT a cost.

What one of the players was arguing, was that the removing of the targeted monsters is a "cost", and his play of Disappear, not only prevents the fusion summoning, but the opponent still pays the cost of removing his remaining targeted monsters from play. I would not rule this way.

Lastly, Dragon's Mirror and the similar Spell card Overload Fusion do not remove their targeted cards from play until resolution. See question 5 on this ruling: http://lists.upperdeck.com/read/messages?id=10618#10618. So if you can't remove all the targeted cards at resolution, then you remove none.

Hope that helps.

doc

 

[John Danker]

Yup, I blew it plain and simple. I should have pulled from the ruling that it targets that it does so at activation, as we've discussed, nothing targets at resolution. I owe someone an appology. Luckily as far as I know that's the only one I blew....I'm sure if there were others someone WILL let me hear about it!

 

[Fury]

What one of the players was arguing, was that the removing of the targeted monsters is a "cost", and his play of Disappear, not only prevents the fusion summoning, but the opponent still pays the cost of removing his remaining targeted monsters from play. I would not rule this way.

That guy didnt know what he was talking about.

If you remove the monsters as a cost, then how could Disappear remove them AGAIN? You couldnt chain Disappear to remove one of the monsters because they are already removed before you even acivate it. Also if were a cost it wouldnt target.

Target -> you are only selecting the cards and nothing else (at activation)
Cost -> you remove the cards from play (at activation)

EDIT: Something just came to me.
Like I said earlier the opponent must be able to verify that the targets are legal - at activation. Does this mean I cant target face-down monsters with Dragon's Mirror/Miracle Fusion/Overload Fusion? It looks like it.