Fiber Jar and Chaos Command Magician

[Tkwiget]

This might sound a little strange, but it's based off a ruling Fiber Jar has with Necrovalley. The ruling between Fiber Jar and Necrovalley says that Fiber Jar targets. Anyway, here's the scenario.


P1 has only a face up Attack Positioned Chaos Command Magician on the field and nothing in his Graveyard.

P2 has only a face down Defense Positioned Fiber Jar on the field and nothing in his Graveyard.

P1 is the Turn Player. Both Players have zero cards in hand and Deck.

P1 declares his attack with Chaos Command Magician and selects P2's face down Defense Positioned Fiber Jar. Fiber Jar is considered to be destroyed, but before it goes to the Graveyard it's targetting Chaos Command Magician and only Chaos Command Magician. Does this mean that Fiber Jar is negated by Chaos Command Magician's effect?

Keep in mind that Flip Effects activate and resolve before they're sent to the Graveyard in the Damage Step and in the Resolve Effects part of the Damage Step Fiber Jar couldn't possibly target himself because of cards like Penguin Soldier and Hane Hane being unable to target themselves in that same scenario. So I was wondering what you guys think of this. Would Chaos Command Magician negate Fiber Jar's effect?

I could just be waaay out there right now. =P

 

[slither]

No it doesn't negate it. For one I still insist Fiber Jar does not target, secondly remember CCM's effect only activates if its just that 1 card. (ie Penguin Soldier)

 

[Tkwiget]

Yeah I know that slither. However, if Penguin Soldier can't target himself because his considered to be destroyed, then how could Fiber Jar target himself if he isn't in the Graveyard and he's considered to be a targetting effect based off the Necrovalley ruling? That's what I'm getting at.

 

[slither]

When the effect of "Fiber Jar" is activated, "Fiber Jar" itself is united with the Deck, even if it has been attacked and destroyed as a result of battle.

 

[Tkwiget]

I guess that would be the case. I don't even know where I come up with some of this stuff..lol

 

[Jason_C]

However, if Penguin Soldier can't target himself because his considered to be destroyed,

Looking at how this is used in context, I don't know exactly what you're thinking, but it seems you may have slightly misunderstood the ruling on Penguin Soldier. The only reason Penguin Soldier cannot target himself is because he must target a monster on the field and, if he was attacked and destroyed in battle, he would no longer be considered to be on the field at the time that his effect resolves. Contrariwise, there is no reason why Fiber Jar could only affect monsters on the field - in fact, quite the opposite is true.

Also, just a note, Fiber Jar cannot conceivably target. It is an "all cards in such-and-such areas" type of effect. It is no more a targetting effect than Dark Hole is.

 

[Tkwiget]

Looking at how this is used in context, I don't know exactly what you're thinking, but it seems you may have slightly misunderstood the ruling on Penguin Soldier. The only reason Penguin Soldier cannot target himself is because he must target a monster on the field and, if he was attacked and destroyed in battle, he would no longer be considered to be on the field at the time that his effect resolves. Contrariwise, there is no reason why Fiber Jar could only affect monsters on the field - in fact, quite the opposite is true.

Also, just a note, Fiber Jar cannot conceivably target. It is an "all cards in such-and-such areas" type of effect. It is no more a targetting effect than Dark Hole is.

According to official rulings, Fiber Jar targets.

Keep in mind that I don't even know what was going through my mind when I came up with this idea.

 

[Kyhotae]

The only reason Penguin Soldier cannot target himself is because he must target a monster on the field and, if he was attacked and destroyed in battle, he would no longer be considered to be on the field at the time that his effect resolves.

Actually, he cannot target himself because he's considered destroyed. He is considered "on the field" until the "Send cards to the Graveyard" portion of the damage step. Destroyed cards cannot be targeted by effects.

 

[Tkwiget]

Actually, he cannot target himself because he's considered destroyed. He is considered "on the field" until the "Send cards to the Graveyard" portion of the damage step. Destroyed cards cannot be targeted by effects.

In this case it's specifically monsters that are destroyed as a result of battle.

 

[Kyhotae]

The "in battle" was understood because that was the context.