'goats....
- Thread starter cuzwbd
- Start date
First, there is no such thing as "scapegoats". "Scapegoat" Summons 4 "Sheep Tokens".
Second, they cannot be Tributed for a Summon or a Set. A Normal Summon and Normal Set are the same thing as evidenced by the fact that you can only do one or the other during your turn, not both. It's like saying, "I know I already Normal Summoned a monster for this turn, but a Set isn't a Summon, so I'm gonna set this card, too." "Sheep Tokens" cannot be Tributed except for Special Summons or other effects, but never for a Normal Summon or Set.
Second, they cannot be Tributed for a Summon or a Set. A Normal Summon and Normal Set are the same thing as evidenced by the fact that you can only do one or the other during your turn, not both. It's like saying, "I know I already Normal Summoned a monster for this turn, but a Set isn't a Summon, so I'm gonna set this card, too." "Sheep Tokens" cannot be Tributed except for Special Summons or other effects, but never for a Normal Summon or Set.
Just something to take into account, the text in the card is clear on this:
Scapegoat
If you activate this card, you cannot Normal Summon, Flip Summon or Special Summon during this turn. Special Summon 4 "Sheep Tokens" (Beast-Type/EARTH/Level 1/ATK 0/DEF 0) in Defense Position to your side of the field. The "Sheep Tokens" cannot be used as a Tribute for a Tribute Summon (or Set).
Scapegoat
If you activate this card, you cannot Normal Summon, Flip Summon or Special Summon during this turn. Special Summon 4 "Sheep Tokens" (Beast-Type/EARTH/Level 1/ATK 0/DEF 0) in Defense Position to your side of the field. The "Sheep Tokens" cannot be used as a Tribute for a Tribute Summon (or Set).
roadhouse007
New Member
cuzwbd said:
1st question: Are "local tourney" and "regionals" synonymous in this case? IE, was it the local regionals? And if so, local to what area? I ask because we had a regionals today and if you are referring to ours then I am curious to which judge (if you asked one) made that ruling. It wasn't me I know.......
2nd: Yeah. The card text is self explanitory. Cannot be used for a tribute summon or set. Now, if you are confusing that with special summon (like with Hand of Nephytis or Lava Golem), that is a different story. Or monster gate and the rest of the cards like that. But not tribute summon or set.
Seems we run into this problem from time to time. The problem lies in the old card text not including the (or set). Another translation problem, as I believe in Japan, sets and summons use the same word.
masterwoo0
NINJA4LIFE
Actually, a Normal Summon is not the same as a Set, because if it were, you could activate Torrential Tribute when a monster is Set to the field, which we know that you can't. So, there is a difference, even though you cannot perform a Normal Summon after a Set (because a Set takes the place of a Normal Summon), as well as most people know what someone is talking about when they say "Scapegoat's" (since it's not like he played "Cobra Jar"), so it really doesnt make much sense to beat him up about it.Kyhotae said:
Also, if you look at the text for Majestic Mech - Ohka,
Text
You can Normal Summon this card without Tributing a monster. If you Normal Summon it this way, it is sent to the Graveyard during the End Phase.
it mentions nothing about not being able to Set Ohka without Tribute, but from the Card Text, it can and should be easily interpreted that he can only use his effect if he is "Normal Summoned".
While I agree that you cannot Tribute a Sheep Token to Set a Monster (as there is no such thing as a "Tribute Set"), I just thought I'd add my two-cents about Tribute Summon and Setting a Monster not being the same.
A Tribute Summon is placing the monster face-up on the field, while a Monster that is 5 Star and above cannot be "Set" to the field without offering a Tribute(s).
What you heard is badly transmitted word-of-mouth. It stems from one of the following:
1) The fact that on the turn you activate Scapegoat, you may still perform a Set.
2) The fact that Stray Lambs' Tokens can be tributed for a Tribute Summon (or Set).
It is very common to play Stray Lambs and then tribute both of the Lamb Tokens for a Tribute Set of a 7- or 8-star monster. Somebody probably did that at the Regionals to which you are referring, and then some less-educated duellists tried to pass it on.
Fine, woo0. It's practically the same thing... lol
Besides, I didn't know there was errata so I was trying to explain it in a way that made some sort of sense. If I knew about the errata, I would have simply referenced it and been done with it. Sorry if I created any confusion.
Besides, I didn't know there was errata so I was trying to explain it in a way that made some sort of sense. If I knew about the errata, I would have simply referenced it and been done with it. Sorry if I created any confusion.
We understand that, but the problem is that if you give the correct ruling, but it is based on false reasoning, people will apply that false reasoning to other situations and undoubtedly come to false conclusions. Not that I'm trying to rub it in or anything.
For further clarification, and for use in future issues regarding summon versus set, the real reason for Scapegoat's initial poor-wording is:
Quite right, DJ. Basically, the Japanese game has no word for "Set". Instead, they use "Summoned face-up" or "Summoned face-down". Cards such as Torrential Tribute can be activated when monsters are "Summoned face-up" which gets translated to "Normal Summoned". The problem is that Scapegoat prevents summons face-down AND face-up, so it was written in Japan as simply "You cannot Summon this turn". The word "Summon" by itself, without a "face-up" or "face-down" tagged onto it, was intended to refer to both, but instead got translated as just "Normal Summon".
as i thought - you cannot use a goat(token) as a tribute for a summon or set....
hmmm
so you can or cannot 'set/tribute set' a monster the same turn you have activated scapegoats... provided you are not tributing a goat token....?????
i'm suspecting this was where the thing went astray...kind of like playing "telephone" as kids....
hmmm
so you can or cannot 'set/tribute set' a monster the same turn you have activated scapegoats... provided you are not tributing a goat token....?????
i'm suspecting this was where the thing went astray...kind of like playing "telephone" as kids....
roadhouse007
New Member
Jason_C said:
????
I have always thought (because after the reprint in the Tournament packs still) Scapegoat allowed you to still Set in the turn it was activated, as is with stray lambs. The video games that we get (and yes, I realize they are NOT an official source, yet mechanics generally work right) allows you to set in the same turn you have used scapegoat or stray lambs.........(reading auto linking).....yeah, scapegoat CLEARLY says no NORMAL summon, FLIP summon or SPECIAL summon....nothing about not setting.....
But goat tokens themselves cannot be tributed for a tribute summon or set.
POINT TO GET ACROSS: You can play scapegoat and still set a monster in the same turn (filling your field to 5) and it would be a legal play. Sorry to burst your bubble JC........
EDIT: I saw Jason's post and didn't bother reading any further down........I didn't realize someone already put the smack down.....
Tsk @ me. You know I was so tired when I wrote that I actually started on one (correct) train of thought and before I finished the post, I had lost it completely.
This is what I MEANT to say. @_@
Basically, the Japanese game has no word for "Set". Instead, they use "Summoned face-up" or "Summoned face-down". Cards such as Torrential Tribute can be activated when monsters are "Summoned face-up" which gets translated to "Normal Summoned". The problem is that Scapegoat prevents its tokens from being used for summons face-down AND face-up. It was written in Japan as simply "You cannot use these tokens for a Summon". The word "Summon" by itself, without a "face-up" or "face-down" tagged onto it, was intended to refer to both, but instead got translated as just "Normal Summon".
Yet the card text of Scapegoat suggests other wise.masterwoo0 said:
Scapegoat said:
It's probably me just nit-picking about the whole comment about "Tribute Sets" not being official and what not. But someone could infer the last sentence to make it sound like Tribute Set is an actual official term. However, the rest of the card text doesn't mention anything about not being able to Tribute Summon during the same turn that Scapegoat is activated. Of course I'd rule no, however, someone would agrue that they could Tribute Summon their face down monster for a level five or six monster. I seem to consider Tribute Summons as a type of Normal Summon. Just like someone could consider a "Tribute Set" a type of "Set" in the game. You still can only perform one of them per turn.
<laughs> I wouldn't take what I said seriously. I'm just getting annoyingly technical about it. XD
Well to be perfectly technical about it, you can see it says, Tribute Summon "(or Set)", the parenthesis separates the clause, which means that the Tribute Summon is just one, the (or Set) is just implying that it is a Tribute Summon but the card get's to be Set on the field.
=P meh, I need my morning coffee ^^
=P meh, I need my morning coffee ^^