Jinzo and RFDD

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frostmonarch

New Member
If Jinzo is special summoned by the use of Return from a Different Dimension, will he be returned to out-of-play when that turn ends or will he stay on the field like Elemental Hero Wildheart? Also, if he does stay on the field for the next turn, does that mean that the rest of the monsters that were brought with him to the field will stay there as well, seeing as how he would then be negating the effects of trap cards?

Thanks
 
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=) Thanks for answering the question. Time for me to disagree with you on that.

Return from the Different Dimension is a card with two kinds of activations. One is the Card Activation which Special Summons monsters that are removed from play. The other activation is an Effect Activation that removes those summoned monsters from play. This effect is connected on the monsters, which are on the field; thus, the effect activation is on the field.

Royal Decree negates the "effects" of Trap Cards "on" the field. Royal Decree will negate the resolution of the Effect Activation of Return from the Different Dimensions' remove from play effect.

Just consider that food for thought.
 
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Tkwiget said:
=) Thanks for answering the question. Time for me to disagree with you on that.

Return from the Different Dimension is a card with two kinds of activations. One is the Card Activation which Special Summons monsters that are removed from play. The other activation is an Effect Activation that removes those summoned monsters from play. This effect is connected on the monsters, which are on the field; thus, the effect activation is on the field.

Royal Decree negates the "effects" of Trap Cards "on" the field. Royal Decree will negate the resolution of the Effect Activation of Return from the Different Dimensions' remove from play effect.

Just consider that food for thought.
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Ok, time for me to disagree with you on this..lol. "Royal Decree" is just like "Jinzo" and will not and can not negate the effects of Trap cards that have already resolved. The last part of "Return from the Different Dimension" is more like a lingering condition, than a separate effect 'activation'.
 
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Royal Decree and Jinzo only have one thing in common. They negate trap cards. That's all. How the two effects function are completely different. Don't compare the two with one another since they function very differently.

And yet if I activate Soul Exchange and then later in that turn Imperial Order is activated it will negate the lingering effect of Soul Exchange correct? Soul Exchange has two kinds of activations. Card Activation and Effect Activation.

At Soul Exchange's activation you target one of your opponent's monsters on their field. That's the Card Activation. Now when you preform any kind of Tribute you're activating the Effect of Soul Exchange. This is the Effect Activation.
 
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Tkwiget said:
Royal Decree and Jinzo only have one thing in common. They negate trap cards. That's all. How the two effects function are completely different. Don't compare the two with one another since they function very differently.

And yet if I activate Soul Exchange and then later in that turn Imperial Order is activated it will negate the lingering effect of Soul Exchange correct? Soul Exchange has two kinds of activations. Card Activation and Effect Activation.

At Soul Exchange's activation you target one of your opponent's monsters on their field. That's the Card Activation. Now when you preform any kind of Tribute you're activating the Effect of Soul Exchange. This is the Effect Activation.
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Sorry Tk but Imperial Order does not negate "lingering effects":


[Re: Last Will] If "Imperial Order" is activated after "Last Will" has resolved, it will not negate "Last Will's" state.
 
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My thoughts are that Jinzo would be removed from play by Rfdd at the end of the turn because Return, after activation, is no longer on the field. Since Jinzo can only negate trap card that are face up, Return is unaffected by Jinzo since it has already resolved prior to Jinzo actually being summoned. However, since Return targets monster cards, specifically Wildheart, Wildheart would stay on the field after the turn is over since it is unaffected by trap cards that target him. If Jinzo is flipped face down by Book of Moon, it would stay on the field.
Also, if any of the cards that are returned are used as tributes, then they would go to the graveyard rather than be removed from play. The latter would be a great way for someone to get Jinzo back on the field later.
Just thoughts from someone who loves the game and wants to learn more.
 
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Last Will is completely different from Soul Exchange. It isn't connected to anything on the field, thus the effect isn't on the field. The effect is just there lingering and not connected to anything.

Also, Jinzo and Spell Canceller are mirror cards of one another. They do not function the same way as Royal Decree and Imperial Order. Jinzo and Spell Canceller negate face up Spell/Trap cards and prevent further ones from being activated -- unless it's Spiritualism. Royal Decree and Imperial Order are negating the resolution of a Spell/Trap card effect that's on the field.

Soul Exchange is connected to something on the field just like Return from the Different Dimension is.

I'm not disagreeing if Jinzo would be removed from play from Return from the Different Dimension. What I'm agreeing with is if lingering effects can or can't be negated. These effects often are on the field and activate. Which are Effect Activations.
 
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Jinzo negates all trap cards. Not just ones that are face up on the field.

However, he STILL can't negate traps that have ALREADY RESOLVED.

And no, this doesn't show a low opinion of my opponent.
 
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So if you were to use Rope of Life on Wildheart he would not gain the ATK boost. But if you return Jinzo with Rope of Life he does gain the ATK boost because his negation effect is not coming into play until after Rope of Life has already resolved.
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Actually he would ..briefly, until his effect...like Jinzo's... becomes active. Even Wildheart cannot "cut into" RoL's resolution (complete resolution)

Jinzo doesn't negate the boost... because Rope of Life isn't face-up any more by the time Jinzo becomes active, and it completely resolved. If it were like Call, he would negate it. Hence the limitations of Jinzo's effect.

It's all about the hidden meaning of the terms. This is a matter of perception and semantics, i completely see your side.
 
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Tkwiget said:
=) Thanks for answering the question. Time for me to disagree with you on that.

Return from the Different Dimension is a card with two kinds of activations. One is the Card Activation which Special Summons monsters that are removed from play. The other activation is an Effect Activation that removes those summoned monsters from play. This effect is connected on the monsters, which are on the field; thus, the effect activation is on the field.

Royal Decree negates the "effects" of Trap Cards "on" the field. Royal Decree will negate the resolution of the Effect Activation of Return from the Different Dimensions' remove from play effect.

Just consider that food for thought.
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Absolutely not...no way... this is all over the place.

The destruction never activates, it is an end of turn "condition" if you will.

Royal Decree will not negate the End Phase effect.
 
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Jason_C said:
Jinzo negates all trap cards. Not just ones that are face up on the field.

However, he STILL can't negate traps that have ALREADY RESOLVED.

And no, this doesn't show a low opinion of my opponent.
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No he doesn't...Graveyard Triggers (like Statue) are not negated by Jinzo.
 
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Picky Picky. :p

Alright, hold on...

........

He negates all trap cards that are activated from the hand or the field, even if they resolve elsewhere.

How was that?

<EDIT: Crap. Subject - Verb agreement. One more try:

He negates all trap cards that activate from the hand or the field, even if they resolve elsewhere.

>
 
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novastar said:
Absolutely not...no way... this is all over the place.

The destruction never activates, it is an end of turn "condition" if you will.

Royal Decree will not negate the End Phase effect.
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Return from the Different Dimension is affecting monsters. Which means it's effect is on the field. It has two seperate activation times and two kinds of activation. Card and Effect activation. It has two seperate effects. One is used when the card is activated and the other is used in the End Phase.

If Return from the Different Dimension's two effects don't create a connection with monsters then the effect wouldn't be on the field. However, the remove from play effect is connected to monsters because of the ruling where if one is flipped face down it will not be removed from play during the End Phase.

Soul Exchange is another example of this. It has two kinds of activation and two seperate times.

The first time is when you activate a card and target a monster. The second time is when you activate an effect that Tributes or when you preform a Tribute Summoning. This activates Soul Exchange a second time.

Lingering effects have more than one activation. The actual physical card activation (plus any other effect that happens to go off at this point -- if any) and the portion of the card text that happens to be the lingering effect. Return from the Different Dimension has no condition. That's a loosely and overused term that's thrown around too much in discussions. Stick with lingering effect because that's what it is.
 
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