! Mirror Wall x Lily

D

Dr Sin

New Member
"If "Mirror Wall" is activated during an attack (including during the Damage Step), then it reduces the ATK of the attacking monster when "Mirror Wall" resolves. (Even though "Mirror Wall" normally reduces the attack by half when the attack is declared, it will still reduce the attack by half if you activate it after the attack is declared.)
You can activate "Mirror Wall" during the Damage Step before damage calculation.
If "Mirror Wall" is already face-up on the field when a monster declares an attack, "Mirror Wall" reduces the ATK of the attacking monster by half when the attack is declared. "from FAQ Konami

Now, the official answer to it is that if a Lily declares an attack and the turn player chooses to pay 2000 lp to boost her attack and the opponent activates Mirror Wall, Lily's attack is 3200. Why is that? Since Mirror Wall can be activate in the damage step, as Lily's effect, why can't I let my opponent pay and then turn her attack to 1700?
One thing that I was wondering about is that there could be two situations and two different answers to this question: when Mirror Wall is already activated and when, as the above situation, I choose to activate it during the damage step when Lily declares an attack and the player chooses to pay.
Can anyone clarify it to me?

Thanks in advance.
(p.s: I searched for it and didn't find a answer before posting)
 
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Okay, new situation.
Let's say it's my turn. My opponent has an attack position Magician of Faith and 1 set s/t. I have 4100 lp. My opponent has still 8000 lp.
I attack the MoF with Lily but since I don't want to pay to save lp I pass my priority to activate Lily's effect in the damage step. Then my opponent activates Mirror Wall. So, as I don't want to have Lily destroyed (by a MoF, lol) I then choose to pay for it's effect. In this situation, what would be Lily's attack?
(I believe it's a situation which Lily's attack becomes 1700 too, and only with 2 links on the chains- effect and Mirror Wall).
 
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Unless Im just totally wrong, once Mirror Force resolves, you are only down 200 attack on Lily. Now you can activate her effect, since you are still in the Damage Step, and Increase her attack by 3000.

It should still allow her to do 3200 damage, minus the monsters attack strength.
 
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In Dr. Sin's scenario if a smart opponent were to wait until you were in the Damage Step to activate Mirror Wall, and the opponent had not wished to waste the pump unnecessarily Lilly would have to chain to the Mirror Wall's activation thus producing another scenario where Lilly winds up at a 1700 ATK. The damage calculation chain is described as "one shot, everything gets activated here", there is no "wait for the first chain to resolve and activate another chain" opportunity. [broken record mode] This is why we need to stop having stupid vague rulings posted and need a comprehensive rulebook detailing substeps for activation, priority, and definitive guidelines on playing the game. [/broken record mode]
 
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masterwoo0 said:
But how is that any different than say, having Sangan face-up attack and your opponent has Reflect Bounder and attacks you and you activate Mirror Wall reducing Bounder to 850, then they activate Limiter Removal in the Damage Step to increase Relect Bounder back to 1700?
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If you activate "Mirror Wall" in response to the attack declaration, then your example works fine. If you wait until the Damage Step to activate "Mirror Wall", then your opponent MUST CHAIN at that time, or lose their opportunity to activate their "Limiter Removal".
 
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You are referring to Mirror Wall being activated before the damage step. I am referring to it being activated in the damage step. UDE for the longest time has been completely ignoring the fact that Mirror Wall can be activated in the damage step and the rulings have been nearly entirely referring to Battle Step activation. In your scenario Limiter Removal would be chained to Mirror Wall and when they resolved bounder would be 1700 ATK.
 
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I understand Mirror Wall's effect on Lily.

One question on Mirror Wall though:

The card says "Pay 2000 Life Points during each of your standby phases. If you do not, this card is destroyed."

Is the 2000 LP payment optional like Imperial Order?
 
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Tai Long said:
I understand Mirror Wall's effect on Lily.

One question on Mirror Wall though:

The card says "Pay 2000 Life Points during each of your standby phases. If you do not, this card is destroyed."

Is the 2000 LP payment optional like Imperial Order?
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The payment is not mandatory. If you do not want to pay, the card is destroyed.
 
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skey23 said:
If you activate "Mirror Wall" in response to the attack declaration, then your example works fine. If you wait until the Damage Step to activate "Mirror Wall", then your opponent MUST CHAIN at that time, or lose their opportunity to activate their "Limiter Removal".
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I was ALWAYS under the impression that after the battle declaration you proceeded to the damage step and calculation of battle damage. While there are traps and spell cards that are ALLOWED to be activated DURING the damage calculation, EVERYTHING is put onto ONE CHAIN. There is no start a chain, resolve a chain, start another chain during damage calculation as it is ALL ONE STEP(although there are substeps involving the chain) Whatever card or effect that is activated LAST during the damage calculation is the first link in the chain and only after all cards and effects are activated do you begin to resolve the chain. (again, broken record mode) Simple enough wouldn't you say?
 
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HorusMaster said:
I was ALWAYS under the impression that after the battle declaration you proceeded to the damage step and calculation of battle damage. While there are traps and spell cards that are ALLOWED to be activated DURING the damage calculation, EVERYTHING is put onto ONE CHAIN. There is no start a chain, resolve a chain, start another chain during damage calculation as it is ALL ONE STEP(although there are substeps involving the chain) Whatever card or effect that is activated LAST during the damage calculation is the first link in the chain and only after all cards and effects are activated do you begin to resolve the chain. (again, broken record mode) Simple enough wouldn't you say?
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You just redefined the Rule Book in regards to the Battle Step. Once the attack is declared, both players may activate Quick-Play or Trap Cards. Once the resulting chain has resolved, play continues on to the Damage Step if neither player wishes to start a new chain.

Once you are in the Damage Step, you can still activate appropriate Quick-Play and Trap Cards.
 
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HorusMaster said:
I was ALWAYS under the impression that after the battle declaration you proceeded to the damage step and calculation of battle damage.
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Battle declaration begins the Battle Step. This is where any Spell Speed 2 effect can be activated that doesnt have some kind of special restrictions on it's timing, and cards that can only respond to attacks can be activated here. This step is where Sakuretsu Armor destroys attacking monsters and where replays occur. Once you enter the Damage Step, neither of those can happen.
While there are traps and spell cards that are ALLOWED to be activated DURING the damage calculation, EVERYTHING is put onto ONE CHAIN.
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That is true of the Damage Step, but not the Battle Step.
There is no start a chain, resolve a chain, start another chain during damage calculation as it is ALL ONE STEP(although there are substeps involving the chain) Whatever card or effect that is activated LAST during the damage calculation is the first link in the chain and only after all cards and effects are activated do you begin to resolve the chain. (again, broken record mode) Simple enough wouldn't you say?
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Relatively yes, but again, you're taking about the Damage Step rules. There is that portion of an attack that takes place before you even enter the Damage Step where all kinds of things can happen.

http://lists.upperdeck.com/read/messages?id=6529#6529

Then, of course, as Woo0 mentioned, there are still proper cards that can be activated during the Damage Step as well and chains created and resolve.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
You just redefined the Rule Book in regards to the Battle Step. Once the attack is declared, both players may activate Quick-Play or Trap Cards. Once the resulting chain has resolved, play continues on to the Damage Step if neither player wishes to start a new chain.

Once you are in the Damage Step, you can still activate appropriate Quick-Play and Trap Cards.
Click to expand...

I wasn't talking specifics as to WHEN you entered the Damage Step, just that it was AFTER the Battle Phase. My point was more specific to chains that activated and resolved IN the Damage Step, not re-writing the rule book. If you'd like, in my next posting I can be more specific as to steps, sub-steps, appropriateness of Spell and Trap cards that can be activated and when...heh heh...the point was that Spell and Trap cards that ARE activated in the Damage step are one chain, NOT seperate chains of activation and resolution.
 
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HorusMaster said:
I wasn't talking specifics as to WHEN you entered the Damage Step, just that it was AFTER the Battle Phase. My point was more specific to chains that activated and resolved IN the Damage Step, not re-writing the rule book. If you'd like, in my next posting I can be more specific as to steps, sub-steps, appropriateness of Spell and Trap cards that can be activated and when...heh heh...the point was that Spell and Trap cards that ARE activated in the Damage step are one chain, NOT seperate chains of activation and resolution.
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Well, you pretty much said that, "After the Battle Declaration, you proceed to the Damage Step." All I was stating is that it isnt straight to Damage Step unless neither player activates Spell and Trap's. You somewhat made a unclear statement if you intended to say that you were talking about the Damage Step.
 
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The Damage Step does not have 1 activation window. There are multiple activation windows, they are just more specific as to what can and cannot be activated during that time.

Examples:

- Step 1 of Damage Calculation, where ATK/DEF modifiers can be used
- Step 2 of Damage Calculation, where Nutrient Z is activated
- The send to the Graveyard portion, where you can activate effects like Rope of Life

Counter Traps are of course outside of this restriction, and can be manually activated at anytime.

It all depends on the card and effect.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
Well, you pretty much said that, "After the Battle Declaration, you proceed to the Damage Step." All I was stating is that it isnt straight to Damage Step unless neither player activates Spell and Trap's. You somewhat made a unclear statement if you intended to say that you were talking about the Damage Step.
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Well, in the future I will be sure to be ABSOLUTELY SPECIFIC in my statements, despite the fact that the ENTIRE reason for the posting, originally, dealt with cards that could be activated in the DAMAGE step and not the process of declaration of battle to the end of damage calculation. Sorry for the confusion.
 
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When posting, regardless of how well intentioned we might be, anything we post can be misinterpreted. We tend to type in the manner we speak, and that doesn't always translate well into text form, as it looses inflection and pitch that are 50% of our comments intention. It can be annoying to try to type in a manner that leaves no room for confusion, but it's still an amiable goal. One that very few forum, sans this one, encourage.
 
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anthonyj said:
Player A attacks a DEF position Sheep Token while Player B has Continuous Destruction Punch active on the field.

In the Damage Step Player A does not activate Lily (why would you to destroy a defenseless sheep).

Player B activates Mirror Wall, Player A does not chain (still no reason to).

Player B chains Castle Walls (okay Houston now we have a problem).

So Player A now needs to choose to either let Lily die or activate her effect. So in this particular case Lily would be at 1700 ATK.
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Lily won't "die".
....just saying.
 
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DarkLogicianOfCaos said:
Lily won't "die".
....just saying.
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Yes she will--by the effect of Continuous Destruction Punch:

Continuous Destruction Punch
If the DEF of the attacked Defense Position monster on your side of the field is higher than the ATK of the attacking monster on your opponent's side of the field, destroy the attacking monster. Damage calculation is applied normally.
 
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