Morphing Jar #2 Returning Fusion Monsters to the Deck

Digital Jedi

Digital Jedi

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http://www.pojo.biz/board//threads/262308

I'm pretty sure this hasn't been brought up here before. A member on Pojo asked if Morphing Jar #2 returns Fusion Monsters to the Fusion Deck, then do they count towards the number of monsters to be summoned by MJ2's effect?
He got one reply from a Level 1 stating that they did not count towards the number of monsters. So far I'm the only one who challenged it.

Now, the guy PMd me stating his Reasonings. As you know, Pojo will likely lock the thread if we try to discuss it there. But I PM'd him back mentioning that I would bring the subject up here and invited him to drop by and participate if he so chooses.

Honestly, I disagree with him. But niether one of us can find a Judges List message for one way or the other. But maybe I'm missing something. Thoughts?
 
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Cropz said:
why should we bother trying to explain something not even Konami did?
we know they don't count, and that's all that's needed for the time being.
Click to expand...
Because discussion and examination lead to sharper analytical skills and understanding. Multiple viewpoints on one subject can shed light on another. Many times we've busted out 20 page threads only to better understand something else that was unrelated. Or so we thought it was unrelated.
 
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There is a reason. It's that people would rather not take the time to "put themselves on the line" to answer it.

You cant just decide one day to say 2+2 = 9, and then say "Because that's what I decided it to be", without a reason.

Without "logic" that's why rulings crumble when a new card comes out, because there is only the fragmented Reasoning given for why something works the way it does.

If you stated today, that "Deck" means ONLY Main Deck, with NO EXCEPTIONS, how many rulings would be affected?

Maybe a handful, if that.

It's all about leaving "wiggle room". If you dont put your foot down on a ruling, and leave it as vague as possible, you can always amend it as you see fit. The obvious rulings are pretty much "obvious", but if you have noticed, people are questioning EVERYTHING now, and its because of all the waffling we have been getting lately.

Call of the Haunted
Last Will
Return from the Different Dimension
Jinzo
Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys
Exiled Force
Thunder Dragon

The list goes on. But that's what happens when you leave a "Loop Hole" out for people to exploit.
 
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Oh, you joined after some of the discussions we've had.

Call of the Haunted is being question after all this time as why it continuosly targets. For some reason, people thin this is a BKSS.

Last Will doesn't (or didn't) have a clear ruling as to whether it's triggred by the very next monster that gets sent to the Graveyard or by a choice of monsters. They waffled as to the ruling.

Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys had something wrong with it for a while where you would Special Summon after being Solemn Judgmented from the Graveyard.

Exiled Force is STILL listed as a Graveyard activated effect in th Skill Drain ruling and they only recently changed it from a Graveyard effect.

Thunder Dragon, well, you've seen the discussion on that one.
 
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LOL. But about it:Morphing Jar #2 counts the amount of monsters going back to the 'main'-deck. Why? This is the source of monsters, spells and trap, and the (only) legal Morphing Jar #2 (and cards such a Cyber Jar, but also all the other monsters) can tap from to get a fresh field.
Cards go back to where they belong: Fusions to the Fusion Deck, Normal, Effect and Ritual Monsters to the maindeck, and Tokens go to ... nowhere, they 'cease to exist'.
So: No, Fusions don't count towards MJ #2. No, neither do Tokens ;) Fusions are in the case of MJ #2 the same as Tokens: they don't exist.
 
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I'm kind of surprised this is coming back up. Didn't we have a well written article on Morphing Jar #2 way back with the old Netrep site? Fusions don't count because they are being returned to the fusion deck and Morphing Jar #2 (though it could have certainly used better wording - like so many other cards) is counting the number of cards that return to the Main Deck so that you can draw that many cards back out of the Main Deck. Can you ever draw a card from the Fusion Deck? No. That is why you aren't counting cards that return there.
 
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I just had a scary thought... Imagine what will happen if a card comes out that allows you to take fusion monsters from the fusion deck or even the grave to your hand... :haveaday_
 
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Occasus_Tenshi said:
I just had a scary thought... Imagine what will happen if a card comes out that allows you to take fusion monsters from the fusion deck or even the grave to your hand... :haveaday_
Click to expand...

LOOOOLLL.... that is gonna be a mess-up.
*Runs away to cower in a corner in fear*
 
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Occasus_Tenshi said:
I just had a scary thought... Imagine what will happen if a card comes out that allows you to take fusion monsters from the fusion deck or even the grave to your hand... :haveaday_
Click to expand...

Well that would be quite a conundrum since we have been told Officially that a Fusion Monster may never be in your hand. Hopefully Takahashi isn't that desperate for effect ideas that he would BKSS such a fundamentally core aspect of the game. :)
 
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What benefit would there be to adding Fusions to hand? I myself like Memory Crusher. How many people have you seen declare a whole BINDER full of Fusions?? Side Deck Memory Crusher and get 2 of these babies face-up for a direct shot. GAME OVER!!! LOL

And the good thing is, what can they do? If it was something in your Main Deck, you could take it out. But you can't "UN"-declare Fusions.
 
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Digital Jedi said:
I'm just curious. What exactly do you mean by "declare"?
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When you make out your decklist, you list all the cards you are playing with in your Deck.

Main Deck 40 Cards
Mataza the Zapper x3
Exiled Force
Mystic Swordsman LV2 x2
....
....
Pot of Avarice
....
....
....
Call of the Haunted
Torrential Tribute

Side Deck 15 Card
Tragedy
Royal Decree
Windstorm of Etaqua x2
....
....
Mobius the thunder monarch x2
Cyber Dragon x1
....
....


Fusion Deck 100 Cards
Fusionist x2
Thousand-Eyes Restrict
Gatling Dragon x3
....
....
Twin-Headed Thunder Dragon x3
....
....
Blue-Eyes Ultimate Dragon x3


When you are sitting across from your opponent, and you declare your 15 card Side Deck and 100 Card Fusion Deck, your opponent may count your Side Deck and Fusions.

That's what I mean by "declare". He could always say that he didnt declare he was playing with Fusions if you attacked him with Memory Crusher, or say he was only playing with a "few".

As long as you "declare" the number of Fusions you are playing with on your Deck List, I believe it was ruled that you could leave your Fusions in your Binder. Most people declare their whole collection regardless of playability so they dont have to be without one they really need.

Once you say you have "100 Fusions" you have that many for the whole match, every time you get hit by Memory Crusher!!
 
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LOL.... So 100*100= 10.000 Direct Damage :p

To KO someone, you just need yourself a Memory Crusher who can attack directly (1000 ATK damage, that is), and in case of 8000 LP when you atk, your opponent must have ((8000-1000)/100= ) 70 Fusion Cards in his/her Fusion Zone :p That is manageable.
 
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Memory Crusher
Effect Monster (Fiend / DARK / 3 Stars / ATK 1000 / DEF 600)

If this card attacks your opponent's Life Points directly, inflict damage to your opponent's Life Points equal to the number of cards in your opponent's Fusion Deck x 100 points.
 
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