Ok, I need help with this...

S

skey23

Council of Heroes
Here's the scenario.

Player A has an active "Convulsion of Nature" on the field, and a "Reversal Quiz" in hand. (do you see where I'm going with this yet?)
Player A activates his "Reversal Quiz". The cost, of course, is to send all cards in hand and on the field to the Graveyard. (do you see it yet?)

When do the decks revert back to 'normal'? As soon as "Convulsion of Nature" is removed from the field? Or when "Reversal Quiz" finishes resolving?

My issue is the fact that 'nothing' is supposed to be able to interrupt the resolution of a card effect.

Thanks!
 
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Well to put it simply, even though there are several events occuring during activation (cost being one of them) it technically is occuring, from a time point of view, simultaniously.

So the Decks flip back as soon as Convulsion of Nature leaves the field, which could either be looked at as prior, during or as a result of, activation of Reversal Quiz. Depending os who you talk to ;).

I personally see it as during activation, as it technically is an all incompassing event.
 
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Ok, so I was somewhat correct in believing that when a continuous effect leaves the field, it's effect doesn't care when or what's going on, it simply stops right then and there and doesn't wait for the resolution of an effect or anything like that.
 
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Yes thats correct.

The confusion seems to lie in the fact that turning a Continuous Effect on is different from turning it off.

My guess is that Konami, in an attempt to simplify and avoid resolution issues, decided that Continuous Effects cannot become active during the resolution of another effect (ie. Jinzo vs. Ceasefire).

Conversely, Continuous Effects will automatically dissapear immediately once the card generating them is removed, no matter when it occurs.

Of course it such a small nuance here, which is most of the time invisible to the players. I don't see any case where its important to pinpoint "exactly" when to effect turns off.

All thats important here is that at the time Reversal Quiz is activated Convulsion of Nature's effect will dissappear.
 
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daivahataka said:
No what I'm saying is that Imperial Order negates effects when they try to resolve, it doesn't prevent them going on the chain. So until the time to resolve cards arrives it has no impact on the current card, & so the fact of what Imperial Order does is irrelevant. All that matters is that the effect is added to the chain and before anything else can be added to the chain Imperial Order's effect ceases.

E.g.
1. A activate's MST targeting Imperial Order on opponent's field.
2. B Chains Emergency Provisions (they paniced) sending Imperial Order to the Graveyard as a cost.
3. Imperial Order is no longer in effect & nothing else is added to the chain by either player.

=> Emergency Provisions resolves giving B 1000LP, then MST resolves without effect since it's target is no longer on the field.

Skey32 seemed to be assuming that, in your example, Emergency Provisions would resolve as soon as activated, with Imperial Order's effect Disappearing during the resolution.
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Wait, are we agreing that the sceario is the same or not?
 
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I am agreeing that the "Imperial Order" ruling is the same type situation I was initially referring to, just as you had proposed when you posted it.

AND it still fits into the way that daivahataka was describing the issue as well.
 
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Digital Jedi said:
Wait, are we agreing that the sceario is the same or not?
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Yes, but you were trying to add in a further unverified localisation (in terms of time) as to when the continuous effect ends:
Digital Jedi said:
Well, while typing I stumbled across something. The question is, if a Continuous Effect is active, and a cost for a different effect removes it from the field, at what point does the Continous Effect no longer apply? After the cost is payed and before the effect is added to the chain? Or after the effect is added to the chain? I think we have an answer in Emergency Provisions' rulings

If you have "Imperial Order" active on your side of the field, you may send it to the Graveyard as part of the cost to activate "Emergency Provisions" and "Emergency Provisions" will not be negated.

So here we have a Continuous Effect being removed from the field as a cost and becoming inactive by the time the effect for that cost is addedd to the chain.
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As I said Imperial Order will negate the resolution but not the activation and addition to the chain, and so we can't say from the above ruling that the continuous effect definitely ends before Emergency Provisions is added to the chain, only that it is definitely gone by the time Emergency Provisions gets to resolve.

This failure to differentiate the two was the problem I was referring to as regards how PSSVR and Skey23 seemed to be thinking on the issue:
skey23 said:
There is NO CHAIN in my example!! It is ONE CARD activating and resolving! It has an activation cost that sends all other cards to the Graveyard. There is a continuous effect out that has the Deck flipped upside down. Does the continuous effect 'let go' of the Deck immediately upon leaving the field, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CARD RESOLUTION? Or does the continuous effect HAVE TO WAIT until the card effect compltely resolves?
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pssvr said:
My gut still says the continuous effect can die in that interval, except that, mechanically, there IS NO INTERVAL. Can something really happen after a chain has finished forming, but before it resolves? I don't think there is any limbo time in there, so you have a valid point...
-pssvr
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I've been trying to point out that there is always an interval between the activation (when the other cards leave as a activation cost) and resolution, somewhere between the two is where the continuous effect ceases.
 
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The continuous effect ends the moment it is a) Destroyed or b) removed from the field. At that exact time. Continuous effects cannot "turn on" in the middle of another effect resolving, but they most certainly can "turn off" during an effect resolving.

There is a "window" after a card is activated where continuous effects can "turn on". Let's say I have Jinzo on the field and an active Skill Drain that is negating Jinzo's effect. If I activate Emergency Provisions sending Skill Drain to the grave Jinzo will begin negating traps immediately (before you could chain with Magic Drain). Why? Because Emergency Provisions is not "resolving" the game has had the continuous effect of Skill Drain removed from the field, immediately ending the effect, there is no effect "resolving" yet so Jinzo begins negating traps and voila you can now only chain with spells or monster effects (like Maryokutai).
 
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daivahataka said:
As I said Imperial Order will negate the resolution but not the activation and addition to the chain, and so we can't say from the above ruling that the continuous effect definitely ends before Emergency Provisions is added to the chain, only that it is definitely gone by the time Emergency Provisions gets to resolve.
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The problem is, Imperial Order would have to still be active after it's already left the field if its effect didn't "deactivate" until after Emergency Provision's is added to the chain. That just doesn't have the right ring to it. Convulsion of Nature is what was throwing me at first, because its a off the wall kind of effect. But Imperial Order clear things up for me, as I cannot in any way justify the effect still being active, when the card is no longer on the field.
 
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Digital Jedi said:
The problem is, Imperial Order would have to still be active after it's already left the field if its effect didn't "deactivate" until after Emergency Provision's is added to the chain. That just doesn't have the right ring to it. Convulsion of Nature is what was throwing me at first, because its a off the wall kind of effect. But Imperial Order clear things up for me, as I cannot in any way justify the effect still being active, when the card is no longer on the field.
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But then if we think in terms of a continuous effect activating, they don't always activate as soon as they hit the field, e.g. Ceasefire with a face down Des Wombat, so the effect isn't strictly tied to the instant the card arrives on or leaves the field. I'm not saying that you're wrong by any means (good chance you're right), I'm just saying that we're currently left without any hard evidence/rulings to tell us anything more than the effect ends sometime before the opponent gets the chance to chain. Afterall last thing we want to do is start unfounded misconceptions about game/card mechanics.
(we'll leave that to Curtis! )
 
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LOL. I really like the grey script. Anyway we do have pretty firm guidelines from the cards that have been mentioned. A Continuous Spell or Trap becomes immediately active when it resolves. A Continuous Monster effect becomes active once it has been successfully summoned or the effect that is flipping it face up or summoning it to the field has finished resolving (ie. Ceasefire vs. Jinzo and Rope of Life vs. Jinzo) Continuous Monster, Trap & Spell effects are turned off the instant they are destroyed (such as with MST or Judgment of Anubis) or removed from the field (such as with Emergency Provisions or Mystik Wok).
 
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