Ok, I need help with this...

S

skey23

Council of Heroes
Here's the scenario.

Player A has an active "Convulsion of Nature" on the field, and a "Reversal Quiz" in hand. (do you see where I'm going with this yet?)
Player A activates his "Reversal Quiz". The cost, of course, is to send all cards in hand and on the field to the Graveyard. (do you see it yet?)

When do the decks revert back to 'normal'? As soon as "Convulsion of Nature" is removed from the field? Or when "Reversal Quiz" finishes resolving?

My issue is the fact that 'nothing' is supposed to be able to interrupt the resolution of a card effect.

Thanks!
 
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I'm inclined to say that the deck would be flipped over as soon as Convulsions of Nature leaves the field. (though I am, of course, very open to having my inclination proved wrong)

As I look at it...

When Skill Drain leaves the field in the middle of resolving a card effect to monsters get their skills back? If Imperial Order left the field in the middle of a card effect would a continuous spell card regain it's effect?

When you look at the wording for Convulsions of Nature it says..."As long as....." which I take to mean "When this card ceases to be on the field decks flip face down again"

My inclination is a knee-jerk reaction though. I don't have time to research it right now.....so don't hold me to it and realize it's an off the cuff remark eh?
 
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See, and that was my 'gut' reaction as well. But then I started thinking about it and that's when the whole thing about things not being able to 'cut in', or 'interrupt' the resolution of a card started to bug me.
 
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But, wouldnt that be the same as having Snatched Ancient Gear Golem on your side of the field and wanting to attack your opponent after you use a Limiter Removal, and he chains with Mystical Space Typhoon to destroy Snatch Steal.

Two things happen...

One, Ancient Gear Golem should no longer be on your side of the field

Two, you cannot activate Limiter Removal on your opponents monster.

So, even though Snatch Steal is a continuous effect, once it is interrupted, shouldnt the monster return to its owner even though an effect is still resolving?
 
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But that's different because you're in the middle of a chain, not a single card.

Activate "Limiter Removal".
Chain "Mystical Space Typhoon" to destroy "Snatch Steal".

Resolve....
"Mystical Space Typhoon" destroys "Snatch Steal", then monster switches sides. This is in the middle of the chain. I have no issue with this.
Then "Limiter Removal" tries to resolve.

With my example, there is no chain. It's a single card activation and resolution. So where is the spot for something to 'cut in' or 'interrupt'?
 
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masterwoo0 said:
Even though it's not a chain, how can you have a continuous effect continue to affect the field if it is not active.

Would that mean that if I had A Legendary Ocean on the field and it got sent to the Graveyard that the field would still be consider Umi until Reversal Quiz resolved?
Click to expand...
Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to say that I'm right...lol. I'm just wondering how the 'act' of flipping the deck back to 'normal' fits into the middle of the resolution of "Reversal Quiz".

I'm just trying to work everything out..lol..
 
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Let me see if I can put this into a 'differen't kind of thinking here...lol.

Ok, let's say the deck is on a springy coil thing that basically keeps the cards face down.
Let's say "Convulsion of Nature" is like a rope that's pulled the deck against the spring so that it's now facing the other direction, and has 'anchored' it down to itself.
So when "Reversal Quiz" is played and all of the cards get sent to the Graveyard as the cost, the anchor is 'released'/'removed'. As a result, the spring kicks in and the deck flips back over immediately, and then you check the top card.

Does that sound about right?


Remember, this answer was my first 'gut' reaction until I muddied it up with actual 'brain work'..lol.
 
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What pssvr said is right. Don't continuous effects immediatly shut off when the source of the effect is removed from the field? The immediatly become active as in Jinzo summoned mid-chain with Call of the Haunted. I would think the reverse would also apply. So convulsion is gone and the deck is face-down before the effect of Reversal Quiz is even added to the chain.
 
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pssvr said:
And another thing, just to be clear: Continuous effects cannot appear or Disappear mid-effect, only mid-chain.
Click to expand...
Ok, THIS is exactly what I was talking about that was bugging me about this whole thing!!!!!!!

There is NO CHAIN in my example!! It is ONE CARD activating and resolving! It has an activation cost that sends all other cards to the Graveyard. There is a continuous effect out that has the Deck flipped upside down. Does the continuous effect 'let go' of the Deck immediately upon leaving the field, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CARD RESOLUTION? Or does the continuous effect HAVE TO WAIT until the card effect compltely resolves?

Because the consensus given does NOT match the quote from pssvr.
 
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Well, I'm sorry my statement bugged you so much... <just kidding> haha.
Anyway, you have definetely brought up a good point. My gut still says the continuous effect can die in that interval, except that, mechanically, there IS NO INTERVAL. Can something really happen after a chain has finished forming, but before it resolves? I don't think there is any limbo time in there, so you have a valid point...
-pssvr
 
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You're statement didn't bug me at all. In fact, it was perfect! For some reason, I couldn't figure out how to say exactly what you said. And I was able to explain my 'confusion' or 'concern' much better after reading your statement.

From what I gather, I wasn't explaining it all too well based off some of the examples given by others.

Let me give another example of what I'm talking about.

Why does "Acid Trap Hole" work on a face-down "Jinzo"? "Jinzo"s effect CANNOT interrupt the resolution of the effect that flipped him face-up. It MUST wait until that effect resolves BEFORE it can become active. Granted, that's talking about a continuous effect activating, but I think it gets my point across...maybe?

Or...this may be a good one..from dgutierr..
I have a face-up "Jinzo" on the field. I have a set "Enemy Controller" and a set "Call of the Haunted", both from previous turns. My opponent has "BLS - EotB" face-up on the field and it's my turn. Can I do this?
Activate "Enemy Controller", Tributing "Jinzo" as the cost, in order to take control of "BLS - EotB". Chain "Call of the Haunted" to "Enemy Controller" to bring back "Jinzo" since he's no longer on the field after the cost is paid.

If that works, then I know for certain that continuous effects can 'release', or 'let go', or whatever you want to call it, at ANY time. Meaning they don't have to wait for card resolutions to Disappear.
 
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Neither of your examples, skey, are quite the same as this dilemna. In your first, the effect has already begun resolving. In your second, the chain has more than one link. The problem at hand here is in a situation with only one link, is there any limbo time between the forming of a chain and the resolving of a chain. And I would say flat out NO. The deck is still upside-down when the chain resolves, because there was no opportunity for Convulsion's effect to die. Let's look at two chains here:
1) a. Activate Reversal Quiz, sending Convulsion to the grave
b. Resolve Quiz. No break here at all.
2) a. Activate Reversal Quiz
b. Hypothetically, chain MST (PLEASE DON'T SAY IT, I KNOW!)
c. Resolve MST
d. Convulsion's effect Disappears between chain links
e. Quiz resolves

In the second, the deck has been returned to its normal position. In the first, it is still upside-down.

-pssvr
 
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skey23 said:
Ok, THIS is exactly what I was talking about that was bugging me about this whole thing!!!!!!!

There is NO CHAIN in my example!! It is ONE CARD activating and resolving! It has an activation cost that sends all other cards to the Graveyard. There is a continuous effect out that has the Deck flipped upside down. Does the continuous effect 'let go' of the Deck immediately upon leaving the field, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CARD RESOLUTION? Or does the continuous effect HAVE TO WAIT until the card effect compltely resolves?

Because the consensus given does NOT match the quote from pssvr.
Click to expand...

There is ALWAYS and interval between activation and resolution when building a chain, even if it is just a one card chain, I view it like this:
1.Reversal Quiz is activated sending cards to the graveyard as a cost.
2.Reversal Quiz can't resolve yet so Convolution's effect can now end, changing the decks right side up, then opponent is permitted to chain to Reversal Quiz.
3. Opponent passes, player 1 gets to chain.
4. Player one passes, chain resolves.
etc...
 
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MM.... nice question... I guess Convulsion of Nature Disappears in the middle of Quiz's resolving. Because sending all the cards is the cost (primary step within the effect of Quiz, because you can't use the effect of a card before the cost is paid), Convulsion's effect is stopped/cutted away from the field/whatever you use to describe it.

So the Deck flips face-down before Quiz totally resolves. At last, I think it would happen in such a way.

EDIT: must type faster, lol
 
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Ok, I'll agree about the "Acid Trap Hole" example not quite matching, but let's look at the "Enemy Controller" example again, this time comparing it to the initial scenario given.

Face-up continuous effect on field - "Convulsion of Nature"
Card with cost - "Reversal Quiz"
Cost - removal of continuous effect from the field

Face-up continuous effect on field - "Jinzo"
Card with cost - "Enemy Controller"
Cost - removal of conitnuous effect from the field

So far, they are pretty much identical. Now since activation costs are paid 1st, that means that "Jinzo" is gone at the time where both me and my opponent can respond to my "Enemy Controller". Could they then "Magic Drain" or "Magic Jammer" my "Enemy Controller" since "Jinzo" is no longer negating Traps? Remember, "Enemy Controller" has not finished resolving. I've simply paid the cost to activate it.

The same goes for "Reversal Quiz". I've simply paid the cost to activate it, but is hasn't finished resolving yet.

So if it's determined that continuous effects leave the field immediately, regardless of what's going on, then I have no issue with that..lol.
 
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pssvr said:
Daivy: Is that an opinion, or do you have evidence? Because if you do have evidence, then I think that pretty much settles this whole debate.
-pssvr
Click to expand...
It's basic chain building, you can't activate a card and resolve it without permitting your opponent the opportunity to chain to it, so there is always an interval between activation and resolution of a card.
 
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