Premature Burial

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Fury

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The effect of this card looks as follows:
1. The targeted monster in the graveyard is special summoned.
2. The monster is equipped with Premature Burial.

Since the last thing to happed was "a monster was equipped with and equip card" Bottomless Trap Hole cant be activated, right?
 
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No, that is not correct. The equipping of the Equip Card to the monster that was Special Summoned is not a 'fact' or 'event' of the game. It's a Game Mechanic that is a basic function of how Equip Cards work.

The last thing to happen is the Special Summon of the monster. The timing is still correct for cards like "Bottomless Trap Hole" or "Torrential Tribute".
 
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Gilford the Legend has a trigger effect that responds to such an event.

So you say if he is revived with Premature Burial his effect wont activate because in this particular case it is not an event, right?
 
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Okay, that doesn't even make sense. First of all, you cannot revive him....he can't be specail summoned.

Gilford the Legend
Effect Monster (Warrior / EARTH / 8 Stars / ATK 2600 / DEF 2000)
This card cannot be Special Summoned. When this card is Normal Summoned, you can equip as many Equip Spell Cards from your Graveyard as possible to Warrior-Type monster(s) on your side of the field.
 
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SORRY, I of course meant Gearfried the Swordmaster but he is a nomi, so I lose.

But I'll continue my search for a card that responds to such an event.

EDIT: Found, yay!

DCR-042 (good ol' guardians) Morale Boost
So, the question stands.
 
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Fury said:
Gilford the Legend has a trigger effect that responds to such an event.

So you say if he is revived with Premature Burial his effect wont activate because in this particular case it is not an event, right?
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I understand what your getting at. That's not what Skey is insinuating, though. The context of the question he's answering is in reference to general response timing created by resolving effects. There's plenty of card effects that respond to non-events, like Morale Boost (more accurately, this card triggers in response to an (un)equipping.) There are cards that trigger in response to discards, cards returning to the hand, Life Point increase or deduction, but this doesn't necessarily make them "game events" that you can respond to with any old card, or that interrupt the usual response timing of others. Their simply cards that trigger due to a game action that you would ordinarily not respond to.
 
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Digital Jedi said:
Their simply cards that trigger due to a game action that you would ordinarily not respond to.
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This is a very interesting approach.

Just to be sure, are the effects of Morale Boost both continuous or trigger? I implied earlier that they are trigger but I'm unsure and my other arguments are based on that.
 
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A ruling said:
"¢ [Re: Butterfly Dagger - Elma] While "Morale Boost" is active, if you equip "Butterfly Dagger - Elma" to "Gearfried the Iron Knight", 1) Increase your Life Points for "Morale Boost", 2) destroy "Butterfly Dagger - Elma" with "Gearfried the Iron Knight"'s effect, 3) inflict damage for "Morale Boost" when "Butterfly Dagger - Elma" is sent to the Graveyard, 4) the owner of "Butterfly Dagger - Elma" can return it to his/her hand.
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Since the above ruling says nothing about putting the Life Points gain effect of Morale Boost on a chain with Gearfried the Iron Knight's destruction effect in a SEGOC event, it's assumed that the Life Points gain of Morale Boost will always happen before Gearfried the Iron Knight's mandatory Trigger effect. Therefore the Life Points gain of Morale Boost is a Continuous effect.

Similarly, you lose Life Points by Morale Boost before you return Butterfly Dagger - Elma, and since Butterfly Dagger - Elma is optional and can miss its timing (yet doesn't here), the Life Points loss by Morale Boost is a Continuous effect also.

Also, there's no reason for one of Morale Boost's effects to be Continuous and the other Trigger, since they both look exactly the same.
 
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Maruno said:
Similarly, you lose Life Points by Morale Boost before you return Butterfly Dagger - Elma, and since Butterfly Dagger - Elma is optional and can miss its timing (yet doesn't here), the Life Points loss by Morale Boost is a Continuous effect also.
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It wouldnt miss its timing because they would happen at the same time and form a chain (if Morale Boost's effect is a trigger).

I also think "they look the same so work the same" but this is Yu-Gi-Oh-ooooooh! ;)

So the conclusion:

Trigger and activated effects cant respond to such mechanics as equipping an equip card or gaining/losing life, but continuous effects (which work like triggers ignoring the chain) can.
 
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Fury said:
It wouldnt miss its timing because they would happen at the same time and form a chain (if Morale Boost's effect is a trigger).

I also think "they look the same so work the same" but this is Yu-Gi-Oh-ooooooh! ;)

So the conclusion:

Trigger and activated effects cant respond to such mechanics as equipping an equip card or gaining/losing life, but continuous effects (which work like triggers ignoring the chain) can.
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That's not precisely what we're saying. What we're saying is that certain game "events", by default, are not considered events that you can ordinarily respond to or that interrupt timing. But certain effects can look for these events to happen and trigger or respond to them. The Golden Rule of Yu-Gi-Oh! at work.

Also, the type of effect has nothing to do with it, necessarily. It might be Continuous or it might be a Trigger Effect. What your looking for is card text. If it says it can respond to these otherwise "non-event" actions, then it can. Whether it's Continuous or Trigger will only affect the manner in which the effect activates and resolves, but it's not a determining factor in what it can react to. Otherwise, what's the point of the card text stating that it can?
 
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Well, if there is a card which responds to an event and uses the chain then I dont see why I couldnt activate a chainable card at that time.

e.g.
BTH responds to a summon but I could respond with Ring of Destruction or Jar of Greed as well.

Appropriate responds to drawing cards so I could respond to the opponent using Pot of Greed after it resolves with Ring of Destruction (e.g. if I can see the opponents cards by an effect like Cyber Esper and I see he drew Jinzo I 'ring away' his tribute before he can tribute it).

Forced Requisition respond to discarding, etc.

So the conclusion is if I cant respond to something with a chainable card then that is not an event for the 'last thing' and cards that still respond to it dont use the chain i.e. are continuous. Sounds right, doesnt it?
 
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Fury said:
Well, if there is a card which responds to an event and uses the chain then I dont see why I couldnt activate a chainable card at that time.

e.g.
BTH responds to a summon but I could respond with Ring of Destruction or Jar of Greed as well.

Appropriate responds to drawing cards so I could respond to the opponent using Pot of Greed after it resolves with Ring of Destruction (e.g. if I can see the opponents cards by an effect like Cyber Esper and I see he drew Jinzo I 'ring away' his tribute before he can tribute it).

Forced Requisition respond to discarding, etc.

So the conclusion is if I cant respond to something with a chainable card then that is not an event for the 'last thing' and cards that still respond to it dont use the chain i.e. are continuous. Sounds right, doesnt it?
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First things first. Summons, attacks and a number of other things actually create response timing, and follow the rules of chaining and priority. These events can be responded to by default. It's a built in condition of the game.

But something like Morale Boost is reacting to something that you can NOT ordinarily respond to. The act of an Equip Card equipping. Like I said before, this is The Golden Rule at work. This is a card effect giving you special permission to do something you couldn't ordinarily do. Card effects do that. But they don't change the default response timing for the entire game, just the situation their involved in.

Now the problem I think your having is presuming that that because the event cannot ordinarily be responded to, that the effect the does respond to it is unchainable. That's simply not the case.

A card effect can, indeed, react to something that is ordinarily not a reactive event, and still be a Trigger Effect. It would trigger, wait chaining and resolve just like any other effect. I doesn't HAVE to be continuous. The only difference continuous makes is that it happens immediately, even between links of a chain. If it's a Trigger Effect, then it would activate, wait for the current chain, if any, and resolve. Just because it triggers from a normally 'un'respondable event, doesn't mean the effect itself is 'un'respondable. It doesn't insist it's continuous.
 
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If there is a trigger that responds to the event then I can chain to that effect with another card which is totally unrelated to the event. This also means that I could activate that said card without the trigger starting the chain. I start the chain with that said card in the same window where the trigger would have activated. Such windows are open for all chainable cards.

Or do you know of an example where cards are involved which dont follow this rule? I think that would be the best.
 
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Ok, here's how it works.

P1 activates "Mage Power" stating they intend to equip it to "Archfiend Soldier".
P2 does not respond.
P1 does not respond.
Resolve "Mage Power".
"Mage Power" equips to "Archfiend Soldier" and it's continuous effect kicks in and modifies "Archfiend Soldier"s ATK value.

When "Mage Power" resolves and equips to "Archfiend Soldier" there is no window to resond because nothing has happened that you can manually respond to. The 'act' of equipping a card is not an event that can manually be responded to.

Cards like "Gearfried the Iron Knight" and "Morale Boost" simply have triggered effects that are based off the 'act' of equipping a card. That doesn't mean you can chain to the 'act' itself.
 
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So both effects are triggered? I thought they are both continuous. Strange.

They should really write these into the FAQ. It would make my life easier. And probably yours as well.
 
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Ok, you are seriously getting things confused.

Both effects are Truly Continuous Effects; however, both effects are 'triggered' by a specific event. Neither effect can be chained to when they 'activate'.
 
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So this doesnt break the rule I'm 'discovering'? Why did you post it then?

So to summarize again:

There are events which create response windows and you can start a chain in these windows with triggered or activated effects. These events are in 'the last thing to happen'.

There are other events with are not included in 'the last thing to happen', and these dont have response windows. Only continuous effects can respond to these.
 
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Fury said:
So this doesnt break the rule I'm 'discovering'? Why did you post it then?

So to summarize again:

There are events which create response windows and you can start a chain in these windows with triggered or activated effects. These events are in 'the last thing to happen'.

There are other events with are not included in 'the last thing to happen', and these dont have response windows. Only continuous effects can respond to these.
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This is the whole part of the problem, right here. This bolded is an incorrect statement and one of the things I've been trying to point out to you. BOTH Continuous Effects and Trigger Effects can respond to theses non-events. NOT just continuous.
 
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