Question about Question...and the RFG pile

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roadhouse007

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Question says on the card that the opponent cannot check the graveyard after it has been activated until it resolves. I am using a deck that utililzes Bazoo and Sorcerer and Return from the Different Dimension. I'm thinking about using a question, because either I summon or it gets removed (which helps me anyway), but first I want to clear up a technicality:

After activating question, can the opponent check the RFG pile? Question doesn't say they can't, but game rules DO NOT SPECIFICALLY say that the RFG pile is public knowledge either. Also, looking at the RFG pile might hint them off to which monster it is, being that most monsters will be removed if I can help it.
 
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Mmm... difficult question. I guess for RFG it is the same as the Graveyard: it is public knowledge.
So yes, they may search it. However, they still must ask first before they search it. (You are actually obligatered to say "Yes" when they ask if they may search it).
Hope this helped,
Greetings,
BenjaminMS
 
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it be true that there is technically no rfp pile at all? From what I've heard, cards don't ever go to a PILE when removed from play... they just sorta... get rfp-ed. So there's no defined location or position for these cards, right?

-pssvr
 
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because certain effects count the number of cards that have been removed from play, like Gren Maju de Eiza and DD Dynamite, I would have to assume that the cards would need to always be placed in a grouping somewhere visible to both players, so that a confirmation could be made.

Simply removing them altogether (to your pocket, lets say) means that I cant verify when you say your Gren Maju has an ATK of 3200, excuse me...3600 *looks around nervously*

see what I mean?
 
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pssvr said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it be true that there is technically no rfp pile at all? From what I've heard, cards don't ever go to a PILE when removed from play... they just sorta... get rfp-ed. So there's no defined location or position for these cards, right?

-pssvr
Click to expand...

Is there a specific location they go? No....however, there are certainly places they CAN'T go!....like under your graveyard....or under your playmat.....or face down by your side deck.....you already knew this though.
 
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Right. I'm just saying that, as far as I know, any rules telling you where to or where NOT to put your RFP pile are basically made up. Which isn't to say they're wrong or should be disregarded. But I bet you can look through all the Netrep files up and down and not find a single "offiicial" rule about where to put RFP-ed cards. Correct?

-pssvr
 
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well there is not an "official" way to keep score either. But we all know what nightmares can occur if players arent meticulous about doing so. You could wear your rfp pile tucked in a sweatband around your forehead as far as I care.:p Its just 'advisable' to keep it visible, together, and away from any other card stacks with which it could be mistakenly mixed with.
 
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Thanks for adding that Masterwoo0
While there are no official rules posted for the removed from play pile certain other rulings madate the ones we've talked about. We know that cards that are listed as part of your deck can't be "hidden" under a table or mat....we know that anything that is public knowledge needs to remain visable....etc. etc.

References to other rulings are often how new rulings are derived.
 
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No problem. I got a Regional to Judge this weekend, so I know I am going to see PLENTY of people in my area who I know for sure put their RFG under their Graveyard, but since I wasnt judging the events they were participating in, they disregarded my protesting of that habit.
 
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BenjaminMS said:
Mmm... difficult question. I guess for RFG it is the same as the Graveyard: it is public knowledge.
So yes, they may search it. However, they still must ask first before they search it. (You are actually obligatered to say "Yes" when they ask if they may search it).
Hope this helped,
Greetings,
BenjaminMS
Click to expand...

What BenjaminMS says here is correct. The RFG pile and the graveyard are public knowledge. The card question puts the restriction that the opponent cannot look at the graveyard to resolve this card. Following this logic I think you could determine a ruling for the RFG pile. Since both are public knowledge and the restriction is placed on one the restriction would also apply to the other. I believe this can be supported some with all of the discussion with taking notes during a duel which is not allowed. Since you need to rely on memory of the graveyard to resolve question, it seem logical to you would have to do the same for the RFG pile.
 
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I would disagree. Question very specifically states that you can't look through the graveyard (which otherwise would be public knowledge). This does not extend to other things in the game which are public knowledge. It doesn't prevent asking how many cards are in your opponent's deck. It doesn't prevent looking through the RFG pile. It only very specifically prevents looking through the Graveyard since that would quite obviously allow the opponent to always get the question right.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
No problem. I got a Regional to Judge this weekend, so I know I am going to see PLENTY of people in my area who I know for sure put their RFG under their Graveyard, but since I wasnt judging the events they were participating in, they disregarded my protesting of that habit.
Click to expand...
Yeah! Go lay the Smackdown, woo0!

I tend to agree with anthonyj on that last part. Question's ruling is simply made to rectify a problem with its effect being directed towards an area that is public knowledge, generally. It in no way alters a player's ability to view, read, or ask about other separate areas (as anthony already laid out).
 
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Well, I'm sure some documentation will be coming forth soon about the RFP pile. There has already been a post or two recently in the UDE Judges List about the RFP pile being public knowledge for counting and the like.

To this point, people considered their RFPs all but gone, hence the "sideways under the deck" or "in the pocket" locations for them. But now that RFP is starting to see more play, that will need to be nailed down to avoid any hassles in the future.

But most of it is already pretty well laid out. We already know that a card that remains RFPd by Different Dimension Capsule count's for Gren Maju's effect (since it counts cards), but won't work for RFtDD since its face down and you can't verify if its a monster or not, even if DDC gets destroyed before the player can get the card.
 
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I believe the intent of the ruling for question when first released intended that a player would need to remember the first monster card at the bottom of the graveyard. During this time their were already cards released which dealt with cards removed from play(Bazoo and Mircle Dig). I feel it was placing responsibilty on the player to keep track of which monster was the first or changed to the first after removing monsters for other card effects. It seems if a player can not view the graveyard during the resolution of question he would have to remember what the card was. By game mechanics he has the opportunity to look at the graveyard after removing monsters for Bazoo's effect. This is the point in time the player should make a new mental note of the first monster. By allowing the player the opportunity to look at the RFG pile seems to give an unfair advantage to that player. This is why I said you could form a new ruling based off other things. I do realize the card does not specifically state this.
 
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The effect specifically asks simply to call the name of a monster. Similar to targeting...you should not check anything at this point.

In otherwords, when Question is activated, your opponent doesn't check anything, be it RFP, Graveyard, Deck or any other zone. All he/she does, is call the name of a monster, no extra information is needed.
 
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But since taking your time to think, looking at the field, your hand, ect is not at all like an effect that interrupts a resolution, it kind of does need to be stated.

Why would it not be permissable otherwise? Its not like checking those things is akin to any kind of effect interruption. Only one effect is active at that point: Question. If the player wants to make as informed a decision as possible, they would want to refresh their memory with all available information.

At worst, it could be considered stalling. But there is nothing that assumes or indicates that checking "public knowledge" stacks is illegal.

Except for the specific ruling regarding Question vs. the Graveyard.
 
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