Return from the Different Dimension

Chipp Zanuff

Chipp Zanuff

New Member
Return from the Different Dimension
Trap card


Card text : Pay half of your Life Points. Special Summon as many of your monsters as possible that have been removed from play on your side of the field. During the End Phase, remove from play all monsters that were Special Summoned by this effect.



Can I special summon monsters that in their text have written "this card cannot be special summoned except..." with this card effect?


I'd also like to hear why the answer to this question would be yes or no...thank you!
 
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So where exactly does it state that effects that activate/resolve at the end of the turn have to be the very last thing to occur in the End Phase? The End Phase is the end of the turn. Thats why it's called the End Phase. This is the area where effects the refer to "the end of the turn" take place oe end. There are no sub-phases to the End Phase, which is what's being implied here.
 
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Posted to the Judge List:
Jowls of Dark Demise
Effect Monster (Fiend / WATER / 2 Stars / ATK 200 / DEF 100)
FLIP: Take control of 1 monster on your opponent's side of the field until the end of the turn that this card's effect is activated. When the controlled monster attacks, it may attack your opponent's Life Points directly.

Great Long Nose
Spirit Monster (Beast-Warrior / DARK / 5 Stars / ATK 1900 / DEF 1700)
This card cannot be Special Summoned. This card returns to the owner's hand during the End Phase of the turn that this card is Normal Summoned, Flip Summoned or flipped face-up. If this card inflicts Battle Damage to your opponent's Life Points, your opponent skips his/her next Battle Phase.

Note that [Jowls of Dark Demise] indicates "end of the turn" while [Great Long Nose] says "during the End Phase".

Say that the Turn Player has a single monster on the field, and then summons [Great Long Nose].
The Turn Player attacks a face-down [Jowls of Dark Demise].
The opponent takes control of [Great Long Nose].
The Turn Player plays [Scapegoat], filling up his field.

Does [Great Long Nose] always return to the owner's hand before it can be returned to the previous controller's field? Do "End Phase" events ALWAYS happen before "end of turn" events?

Is the End Phase considered the same as the end of the turn?
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Edit: Yum, errata.
http://store1.yimg.com/I/inmint_1844_292035649
http://store1.yimg.com/I/inmint_1844_89382019

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Change of Heart [/font] [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] (Metal Raiders, Starter Decks: Yugi, Joey, Pegasus, Yugi Evolution, Kaiba Evolution, Dark Beginning 1)
Select 1 monster on your opponent's side of the field. Take control of the selected monster until the End Phase of this turn.

I rest my case.
[/font]
 
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If this is a question that was just recently posted, then perhaps you should wait for an answer before you succesfully rest your case. If this was already answered then perhaps you should post the answer before you rest your case. And the links you provided only seam to reinforce my point, not disprove them.
 
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I have a question :

When Return from a Different Dimension is resolving, if Jinzo is summoned from out of play does the effect then become negated, not allowing you to summon anymore monsters?
Also, I don't know if I am right, but I believe that if Jinzo is summoned by RfaDD, it is still removed at the end of the turn because the condition still exists that all monsters summoned by the effect are removed at the end of the turn (end phase, whatever, same thing). Is this right?
 
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roadhouse007 said:
I have a question :

When Return from a Different Dimension is resolving, if Jinzo is summoned from out of play does the effect then become negated, not allowing you to summon anymore monsters?
Also, I don't know if I am right, but I believe that if Jinzo is summoned by RfaDD, it is still removed at the end of the turn because the condition still exists that all monsters summoned by the effect are removed at the end of the turn (end phase, whatever, same thing). Is this right?
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The summoning of monsters from out of play by this card is simultaneous and so Jinzo only arrives on the field at the same time as the other monsters.
And yes, even if Jinzo is summoned by RfDD the end of turn aspect is a condition placed upon each monster at their summoning and so Jinzo cannot negate it as it has already resolved when he hits the field.
 
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Digital Jedi said:
If this is a question that was just recently posted, then perhaps you should wait for an answer before you succesfully rest your case. If this was already answered then perhaps you should post the answer before you rest your case. And the links you provided only seam to reinforce my point, not disprove them.
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Um, how?

The judge list has not posted. But Konami seems to think that the difference between End Phase and End of Turn is important enough to errata Change of Heart.

To disprove that point, you would need to show other cards that had a similar errata in a part of the effect that is not related to the "End Phase" portion. Namely, the part "Select and control 1 opponent's monster (regardless of position)", unless you can find another part.
 
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The errata isn't anywhere near enough proof. It's a change in termonology that makes about as much sense as when they changed "Equip Spell Card" to "Equip Card" on certain monsters. And that did nothing but convince people that there was was a type of equip that was neither Spell nor Trap, which is totaly untrue.
 
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It does seem unneccessary because monsters always default to a Spell Card anyway. What they should have done was change all the Trap Equips to state "Equip Trap Card" as that would seem more clear. Regardless that has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

I personally have asked this on the board in the past before, and i think bishop was the one who answered me. I believe at that time (about 1 1/2 yr ago) the 2 terms were deemed the same (don't quote me though).

I have always believed that they were different, similar to what i posted earlier in the thread.
 
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novastar said:
It does seem unneccessary because monsters always default to a Spell Card anyway. What they should have done was change all the Trap Equips to state "Equip Trap Card" as that would seem more clear. Regardless that has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

I personally have asked this on the board in the past before, and i think bishop was the one who answered me. I believe at that time (about 1 1/2 yr ago) the 2 terms were deemed the same (don't quote me though).

I have always believed that they were different, similar to what i posted earlier in the thread.
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It is relevent in the sense that an errata was made that did nothing to clarify what they were attempting to clarify. It only led to erronuous conclusions. The errata on Change of Heart is no more proof that the End Phase and the 'end of the turn' are anything but the same thing.
 
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No, none of this is "proof" at all, i never suggested that.

My personal feeling is that they are different, and maybe...just maybe, the errata might indicate that. Since many of the effects they changed seem like logical changes, making it clear that you can order the resolution. There is no "proof"...

As far as them not clarifying... well what's new?
 
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novastar said:
No, none of this is "proof" at all, i never suggested that.

My personal feeling is that they are different, and maybe...just maybe, the errata might indicate that. Since many of the effects they changed seem like logical changes, making it clear that you can order the resolution. There is no "proof"...

As far as them not clarifying... well what's new?
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Never meant to suggest that you suggested I was suggesting that suggestion--- :p

...

How exactly did I catch up with you on posts?
 
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probably the closest example I can find for supporting the idea of there being a difference between 'End Phase' and 'end of the turn' would be the infamous loop caused by Manticore of Darkness.

Its effect triggers in the End Phase and continues until the controller chooses an end point to the loop. At that point the End Phase proceeds to the end of the turn.
 
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Things (on the FAQ) that happen at the end of the end phase:

When it is the END of your opponent's End Phase and you have no hand, then "The Agent of Wisdom - Mercury"'s effect activates. So if you activate "Dust Tornado" during your opponent's End Phase, and Set your last card in your hand, and have no cards at the end of the End Phase, "The Agent of Wisdom - Mercury"'s effect activates.

If your hand was increased during the End Phase by activating "Jar of Greed", and you have a card in your hand at the end of the End Phase, then "The Agent of Wisdom - Mercury"'s effect does not activate.

(Pikeru's Circle of Enchantment):
This effect lasts until the end of the End Phase.

EDIT: And the contrast [Re: Neko Mane King] "Neko Mane King" doesn't actually end the turn, it advances play to the End Phase, so "Destiny Board" can still be used, etc.

Is this proof enough that they are different?
 
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Raijinili said:
Can you at least show how that, and the errata, don't prove our point? I think you're just being stubborn.
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Okay.

The intital jist that I was getting from most people was that "the End Phase" refered to the overall phase where effects that needed to be resolved could be reslved in any order by the controller of said effects.

Conversly it seems it was being said that "the end of the turn" was the very last point in the End Phase and as result, absolutly had to be the very last thing to happen.

However . . .
____________________________

Agent of Wisdom - Mercury's effect uses the phrase "opponent's End Phase" but the ruling clearly states "When it is the END of your opponent's End Phase" then the "effect activates." Thats the exact opposite of the above line of Reasoning.

Same for Pikeru's Circle of Enchantment.

Neko Mane King use a completely different term more closely related to "the end of the turn" but its ruling states that it "doesn't actually end the turn, it advances play to the End Phase."

I don't see how these inconsistant interpretations can prove anything.
 
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Whoa hold on a sec, DJ, it doesn't matter what the card text says. The card text doesn't decide whether there is a difference between the end of the turn and the end phase. The card texts are just plain wrong--Like i said in the other thread:
Some cards say End Phase and mean end of the turn, and some cards say End of the turn and mean End Phase.

We know by definition that there is an end of the turn. If a turn didn't have an end then it would never change to the next turn. The rulings i posted specify that there are things that happen specifically at the end of the turn, but there are things that happen at any time during the end phase as well, and that's why Neko Mane King has a ruling. So we know that the end phase does not mean that the turn is going to end. Lots of things can happen during the endphase.
 
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DaGuyWitBluGlasses said:
Whoa hold on a sec, DJ, it doesn't matter what the card text says. The card text doesn't decide whether there is a difference between the end of the turn and the end phase. The card texts are just plain wrong--Like i said in the other thread:
Some cards say End Phase and mean end of the turn, and some cards say End of the turn and mean End Phase.

We know by definition that there is an end of the turn. If a turn didn't have an end then it would never change to the next turn. The rulings i posted specify that there are things that happen specifically at the end of the turn, but there are things that happen at any time during the end phase as well, and that's why Neko Mane King has a ruling. So we know that the end phase does not mean that the turn is going to end. Lots of things can happen during the endphase.
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I understand that, but to me this isn't anymore than a case where they weren't thinking things through.

Similar to where some rulings state that tokens are destroyed when they leave the field and others say the are removed from play. It can only be one or the other but not both.

The "End Phase" and the "end of the turn" have been poorly defined and either have to be two different things or the same thing. Not both. Being the same thing strikes me as being the more sensible alternative and has been the more common way of playing this mechanic.
 
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