Strike Ninja- weird situations

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Dr Sin

New Member
I've read Curtis article at metagame.com and just to clarify, let me ask about 2 situations (I think there are some points I didn't understand):

1) TP summons Strike Ninja. NTP has 2 fd s/t (trap hole and BTH). NTP responds with TH (link 1). TP decides to use Ninja's efffect (Link 2) remmoving 2 darks from grave. Then, NTP adds BTH to the chain (link 3). Can TP still use Ninja's ability as link 4, removing Ninja before BTH can resolve, despite of Ninja text states "You can only use this effect once per turn"? (I believe the answer is yes, because I think the text really means activate and resolve once per turn, but I'm not sure)

2) Same as above, but link 3 is now a Divine Wrath. Ninja can use his ability to remove himself even against this spell speed 3 effect?

Thanks in advance
 
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I do agree with Curtis, simple reason being, general rulings of chaining.

Spell Speed 2 effects can be chained to Spell Speed 2 or 1 effects.

Regardless of text, spell speed is in fact spell speed. IMHO
 
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skey23 said:
The effect was activated, then chained to, but wasn't negated. So, does the game still see it as having been successfully activated yet? The chain is still building.
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Yes, it does. Successful activation doesn't require successful resolution. Once, NTP chains a second trap to Strike Ninja's effect. you could not then activate say Divine Wrath to Strike Ninja because the Bottomless Trap Hole in the middle would cause a timing issue. Since you couldn't respond to Strike Ninja now and Negate his activation(not to mention I think we've established there really isn't a card that would apply to this situation anyway) then the game mechanic now knows Ninja has been used this turn.

To me it sounds like you guys are saying the powers that be would like to reassign Strike Ninja to another category and in effect errata Him without errata.


#@$%^&*Am I alone in this?
 
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So, let me see if I can sum up this whole thread...maybe..lol.

It would 'appear' that Curtis was correct with his article in regards to "Strike Ninja"s ability to chain it's effect multiple times in the same chain.

Why? When his effect clearly states it can only be 'used' once per turn.

It would appear that since his activation AND effect hadn't been resolved, nor negated, the game does not see it as being 'used' until he actually ends up in the RFP area, or his effect is negated w/o the activation being negated ("Skill Drain").

Does that sound right to everybody?
 
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masterwoo0 said:
There are no "timing" issues with Bottomless Trap Hole. BTH is still in the Chaining (activation) mode, not resolution, so there are still affects that can respond as well as "chain" to Strike Ninja's effect, as long as there are no Spell Speed 3 cards chained, then ONLY a card that can chain to a SS3 effect can be used.
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Which no one is argueing. But the idea that Strike Ninja can chain again because he hasn't resolved yet is ludicrous. Using the same logic I should be able to do this:

Player 1 Activates effect of Ominous Fortunetelling in his Standby Phase
Player 2 chains with Royal Decree
Player 1 Chains using Ominous Fortunetelling a 2nd time, then just for the fun of it chains it a 3rd and 4th time because it hasn't resolved yet.

Anybody want to explain to me what is wrong with that picture?

Strike Ninja can not be activated twice in the same turn. And yes Rai I know that Curtis answers a lot more questions than the others on the List but that shouldn't excuse some of the huge mistakes he has made.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
There are no "timing" issues with Bottomless Trap Hole. BTH is still in the Chaining (activation) mode, not resolution, so there are still affects that can respond as well as "chain" to Strike Ninja's effect, as long as there are no Spell Speed 3 cards chained, then ONLY a card that can chain to a SS3 effect can be used.
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I was talking about the ability to respond to Strike Ninja's effect. Bottomless Trap Hole being chained to Ninja's effect would in fact keep you from being able to activate Divine Wrath, because It has to respond to the link in the chain before it. And that is the timing issue I was referring to. Not one chain or the other that was originally posted, but another scenario based on my argument.
 
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Okay...

Im just trying to see how this once per turn pertains to activation, and not the removal from play, which is the actual "once per turn" effect it is talking about.

He can only remove himself from play, "once per turn", but he can attempt to "activate" his effect in a chain, as many times as he can pay the cost.
 
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anthonyj said:
Which no one is argueing. But the idea that Strike Ninja can chain again because he hasn't resolved yet is ludicrous. Using the same logic I should be able to do this:

Player 1 Activates effect of Ominous Fortunetelling in his Standby Phase
Player 2 chains with Royal Decree
Player 1 Chains using Ominous Fortunetelling a 2nd time, then just for the fun of it chains it a 3rd and 4th time because it hasn't resolved yet.

Anybody want to explain to me what is wrong with that picture?

Strike Ninja can not be activated twice in the same turn. And yes Rai I know that Curtis answers a lot more questions than the others on the List but that shouldn't excuse some of the huge mistakes he has made.
Click to expand...

You can chain several Draining Shield to an attack, as long as the timing is correct why couldn't you chain several Ominous Fortunetelling?
 
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So, what happens in Anthonyj's example? He chained it 3 times to itself. How does that resolve? Do you get to call 3 random cards? Or do the other 2 chances get 'negated' when you resolve the last one in the chain?
 
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Nah sorry nevermind, I anthonys example wrong, I read that he "activated" several OF's, not the same.

sorry ignore my previous post.

**swallows a mentallity pill, and takes a nap**
 
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I agree with Anthonyj's Reasoning on "Ominous Fortunetelling" because it has the possibility of actually resolving multiple times.

"Strike Ninja"s effect can't resolve multiple times. Once it resolves, he's removed from play. Any other attempts from the chain to resolve end up resolving w/o effect. So you've still only 'used' his effect once to remove him from play.

[edit]Uggh..I just though of something very ugly...
We'll go on the assumption that you CAN chain his effect multiple times during the chain...just for grins...:grin_jedi.

I summon "Strike Ninja".
Opponent responds with "Trap Hole".
I chain "Strike Ninja"s effect.
Opponent Chains with another "Trap Hole".
I chain "Return from the Different Dimension".
Opponent does not respond.
I chain "Strike Ninja"s effect.
Opponent does not respond.

Chain resolves.
"Strike Ninja" gets removed from play by his effect.
"Return from the Different Dimension" Special Summons "Strike Ninja" back to the field.
"Trap Hole" tries to destroy "Strike Ninja", but can't because the targeted one left the field.
"Strike Ninja"s effect attempts to resolve again. Now here is where I'm worried. Does this actually remove "Strike Ninja" again? Or does it consider the 'new' one to be a different monster? This would kinda not be good if it actually resolved again...lol.
 
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anthonyj said:
Which no one is argueing. But the idea that Strike Ninja can chain again because he hasn't resolved yet is ludicrous. Using the same logic I should be able to do this:

Player 1 Activates effect of Ominous Fortunetelling in his Standby Phase
Player 2 chains with Royal Decree
Player 1 Chains using Ominous Fortunetelling a 2nd time, then just for the fun of it chains it a 3rd and 4th time because it hasn't resolved yet.

Anybody want to explain to me what is wrong with that picture?

Strike Ninja can not be activated twice in the same turn. And yes Rai I know that Curtis answers a lot more questions than the others on the List but that shouldn't excuse some of the huge mistakes he has made.
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Well that definately is a great point... maybe i should have stuck to my guns.

Honestly, stuff like mistakes on Metagame happen all the time... i think people make too big of a deal out of it. It's only a problem because in YGO there are like 3-4 main guys that answer ruling questions, so there word is considered gospel...and people somehow think that the gods could never be wrong...;)

My thinking from the beginning was that the "use" restrictions are like tokens... you have a certain amount of "activation" tokens depending on the description in the text.

You spend that token at the point you activate and put the effect on the Chain Block..thus preventing SN from chaining to itself.
 
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But you arent paying a cost to activate anything with Ominous Fortunetelling. With Strike Ninja, you are removing 2 cards from your Graveyard to activate an effect.

Ominous Fortunetelling, you are selecting a card in your opponents hand at random. How can you chain to an effect that must resolve unless you chain with a subsequent effect?

You can chain all you want with Ominous Fortunetelling, but you would only be selecting cards, never getting to the "call" portion and the effect would never resolve, which would be stalling, and since you are not doing anything positive to progress the game, you would receive a Warning and an eventual Penalty if you continued.
 
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masterwoo0 said:
But you arent paying a cost to activate anything with Ominous Fortunetelling. With Strike Ninja, you are removing 2 cards from your Graveyard to activate an effect.

Ominous Fortunetelling, you are selecting a card in your opponents hand at random. How can you chain to an effect that must resolve unless you chain with a subsequent effect?

You can chain all you want with Ominous Fortunetelling, but you would only be selecting cards, never getting to the "call" portion and the effect would never resolve, which would be stalling, and since you are not doing anything positive to progress the game, you would receive a Warning and an eventual Penalty if you continued.
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Why do you think that? In my example Ominous Fortunetelling gets activated, the opponent activates Royal Decree and then I again activate Ominous Fortunetelling. Would that be allowed? Since obviously Royal Decree will wind up negating the other Ominous Fortunetelling. Okay now how about I chain to the second Ominous Fortunetelling with Mystical Space Typhoon targeting Royal Decree? Now will the game somehow disallow the resolution of one of the two Ominous Fortunetelling knowing that it is only allowed to resolve once?.

It was a mistake made by Curtis. It is nonsense to think that Strike Ninja somehow can chain to itself indefinitely as long as you have more dark monsters to fuel the activation.
 
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