Summon, priority and Solemn Judgment/Horn oh Heaven

M

Madma

New Member
Strange question, but the answer can be simple...

If I summon a monster and my opponent responds activating Solemn Judgment or Horn of Heaven, the summon is negated and I don't get any effect (like with Sangan).

But what about effect requiring activation costs? Can I still activate the effect of a summoned monster calling priority? And what happens to my effect? Is it negated? Or not? And the cost? Look at this simple scenario:



No cards on the field, except a set trap on my opponent's side of the field (it is Solemn Judgment). I summon Chiron the Mage, and I discard a card from my hand calling priority to activate his effect (the target is obviously the only set card on the field). My opponent chains that card, that is Solemn Judgment, paying half of his lp. The chain finishes and resolves: the summon is negated and I don't get any effect.



Is all correct? Or is the activation of Solemn Judgment incorrect? Can Solemn Judgment only be activated just after the summon, before I activate any effect calling priority?
 
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Scenario inconceivable.

Why? Because you can't activate effects of monsters that aren't on the field. Technically speaking, there are TWO response windows to each summon. One is a small window that accomodates ONLY Solemn Judgement, Horn of Heaven, and Royal Oppression. No other cards can be activated there except something like Seven Tools of the Bandit in a direct chain to the summon-negator. Then, if the summon isn't negated, it is declared successful, and the monster hits the field. Then a NEW window is formed. This is the one where we get into Torrential Tribute vs Exiled Force, Priority, etc.

So Horn of Heaven and the effect of Chiron the Mage could never even be in the same chain.
 
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Another way to put it would be this..lol.

"Solemn Judgment"/"Horn of Heaven" negate the summoning, so it never happened. So you never get to use the effect of your monster. For your scenario, it would go like this...

I summon "Chiron the Mage", and immediately call Priority to activate his effect, and discard my card, and target my opponent's set Spell/Trap Card. My opponent responds with "Solemn Judgment", but, now we have an issue. The issue here is that I went too fast. So now it looks like there is a chain forming when there really isn't. As Jason_C stated, the timing for "Solemn Judgment"/"Horn of Heaven" is actually before you get the chance to use Priority with your monster because the monster technically hasn't been successfully summoned yet. So, to finish out what 'should' be done if you end up in a situation like the one above, this is a good way to handle it. Basically what happens is the Game State does a little mini 'rewind' back to the point where the monster was summoned. So you put your discarded card back in your hand because you never should have gotten that far in the first place. Then, since "Solemn Judgment" has been activated, you can chain to it with "Seven Tools of the Bandit" if you had one previously set from another turn. If not, then "Solemn Judgment" resolves and you lose "Chiron the Mage". Also, because you were so 'quick on the draw', so to speak, your opponent now knows 1 of the cards in your hand.

It may sound a little silly, but that's why it's always a good thing to announce what you're doing and then ask your opponent if they respond. For example, I'll 'correct' the scenario to show a 'better' way of doing it so there hopefully wouldn't be any confusion.

I declare my Summon of "Chiron the Mage" and place him on the field. I then ask my opponent if they wish to negate the summon. This gives them the opportunity to activate their "Solemn Judgment"/"Horn of Heaven" in the 'proper' timing. If they don't wish to negate the Summon, then I declare my use of Priority to activate "Chiron the Mage"s effect and target their set Spell/Trap card. My opponent can then respond Appropriately; however, since I gave them the opportunity to negate the Summon, and they declined, they could not respond with "Solemn Judgment" at this time because the monster has already been Summoned.

Does that make sense?

Hope this helps!
 
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Don't say that a summoning negated by Solemn Judgment/Horn of Heaven is like the summoning never happened. The summon was never resolved successfully, although it was attempted and the game state sees this.

skey23 said:
It may sound a little silly, but that's why it's always a good thing to announce what you're doing and then ask your opponent if they respond. For example, I'll 'correct' the scenario to show a 'better' way of doing it so there hopefully wouldn't be any confusion.

I declare my Summon of "Chiron the Mage" and place him on the field. I then ask my opponent if they wish to negate the summon. This gives them the opportunity to activate their "Solemn Judgment"/"Horn of Heaven" in the 'proper' timing. If they don't wish to negate the Summon, then I declare my use of Priority to activate "Chiron the Mage"s effect and target their set Spell/Trap card. My opponent can then respond Appropriately; however, since I gave them the opportunity to negate the Summon, and they declined, they could not respond with "Solemn Judgment" at this time because the monster has already been Summoned.

Does that make sense?
Click to expand...
Yes, this does make sense and it's correct.

<goes to his first class of the day..lol>
 
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I like to think of it as a declaration of summoning. That tiny window of opportunity that Jason referred to allows Horn of Heaven and Solemn Judgment to respond to the declaration by negating it and preventing the successful summoning of the monster.

If it never happened, then the turn player could keep attempting to Normal summon a monster again and again until the opponent could not stop the "never happened..ness" That just wouldn't be right. *goes to lay down after giving self headache*
 
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That's why saying a negated summoning is considering that summoning to have never happened. The statement is incorrect completely.

A negated summoning simply resolves unsuccessfully. However, the summoning (Normal and Tribute) was attempted and the game state sees this.
 
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The game registrates the 'almost'-summoning.
So, in case it get negated, it just counts like a succesfull summoning towards your maximum of 1 Normal Summon/Set per turn.
*gives squid a bag with cold ice to keep against his head*
 
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*gives squid a bag with cold ice to keep against his head*
Click to expand...
*takes away the bag of cold ice, and replaces it with a bag of HOT ice* wtf?

I would say the game registers an ATTEMPT at summoning. That's how the people I duel word it, anyway. Even if the summon fails, it's still been attempted.
 
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Think of it like this. =)

Note: I don't know how to play this game.

You have five bucks and only five bucks. You only have enough money to play one Poker game with your buddies and you declare that you're going to win their money. After a little while you get smoked by your best friend and you cough up your five bucks. You have no more money left and you failed to win everyone's money.

Winning their money = the field.
Your five bucks = your monster.
Them beating you = your monsters' summoning got negated.
Your failure = the game state seeing the attempted summoning and logs the information.

Is that easier to understand???
 
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