The Orichalcos Conspiracy

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SynjoDeonecros

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A while back, on UDE's YGO forum, I had heard of some people swearing up and down that they had seen the Seal of Orichalcos played in some sort of "Beat the Master" tournament at a local convention. They never specified which convention they saw it in, who was playing or against which UDE representative, and they never gave any visual proof that it actually happened, yet they insist it did, and got really offensive with me when I demanded evidence.

This isn't a new rumor, but thus far, absolutely nothing I've seen in my research into it has come up with anything; no claims or flyers from UDE announcing the chance to play against an Orichalcos deck, no visual proof that the card exist...in fact, the only visual "proof" I've seen are obvious proxies, and the only accounts I've gotten are anecdotal screams of "Yes, it happened, believe it!" with very little to no actual details into what happened in the duel or how it happened.

So, is this rumor true? Is there a special Seal of Orichalcos card that's used in some "Duel the Master" tournament? Or is this just more of UDE's propaganda?
 
*digs*

Apparently it took place at GenCon Indy, two (maybe three) years ago: http://www.pojo.biz/board//threads/582186

Wasn't Kenjiblade an UDE (a UDE?) employee at one point? He confirms it here: http://www.pojo.biz/board//threads/685944

Egh, Pojo? That's one of the worst places to get accurate and unbiased information about the game. Plus, not only does it look like the people on there know when or where it happened (which is consistent with all of the accounts I've heard, that is to say utter rubbish hearsay that doesn't tell you anything about whether the rumor is true or not), it doesn't seem like Kenjiblade was sure at all about what the effect of the card was, and looked eager to shut up any speculation about it, so I'm going to take his comment as either meaning "No, it doesn't exist, but if it does, this is how it would be", or "I'm getting sick of all this speculation, so here's my thoughts on it, and let's leave it at that, okay?".

Not to be a stick in the mud, but this doesn't tell me anything new, nor does it give a definitive confirmation that it actually happened. And, of course, there's no links to announcements made by UDE about the event, no pictures taken showing the duel or the card to be real, etc. Seems the more I delve into the mystery of this, the more it sounds like an urban legend drummed up by UDE propaganda.
 
John Danker is trustworthy. I'm sure that others here can vouch for his reputation.

I'm sorry, but saying that he's trustworthy isn't enough for me; he may believe his story, and he may not lie on any other occasion, but this story's been going around for years with no concrete, verifiable evidence to back it up. If they provided a picture of the duel, a flyer from UDE announcing the event, something like that, then there'd be some credence to their stories, but so far, it's all anecdotal, word of mouth hearsay, just stories that are passed on and repeated. It's part of the reason why I also don't believe in the story that Slifer the Sky Dragon got its American name from a 4Kids executive; I've tried to find evidence of that story, and there just isn't any, just the same rumor over and over again.

Think about it; supposedly, this happened at a big comic con years ago (more than 3, I know that much, since I've heard this story since at least 2005, if not earlier), and it was apparently a big event; you'd think that someone would have a link to an announcement on UDE's site boasting about it, or a flyer for the con with the event listed as one of their activities. Hell, I live in Indiana, and I've seen several flyers for GenCon each time it's held, so I know they list whatever YGO-related events. I'm actually watching a Duel the Master match from this year's GenCon, right now, and not only does it NOT have you duel against a representative from UDE or Konami, it also looks like your typical tournament duel but with a funky "house rule" set up, such as "All monsters are Gemini Monsters this duel" or something. Is this what the Duel the Master event that supposedly had the Seal of Orichalcos duel in it worked? None of the retellings of it from anyone I've talked to mention that.

I'm sorry, but it's been at least 3 years or so since this event supposedly happened, and with nothing but anecdotal hearsay to "prove" that it happened, I'm going to have to call shenanigans on the whole rumor. Besides, now that the OCG has Orichalcos Shunoros as an actual card, you'd think that someone from Konami or UDE would show up and show us "Hey, the Seal of Orichalcos is a real card! You were all right!".
 
Well, one document about GenCon 2005 mentions something:
UDE will showcase the most popular trading card games such as the Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG with the “Duel the Master: Orichalcos Challenge,” in which attendees can challenge Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG Master Duelists for exclusive product....
Which at least implies that the event had something to do wit the Orichalcos. The document has been taken down, but it's been cached here and here.

There was even a Judge List post... it's not in the COGonline archive, but it's referenced here. I distinctly remember the message being posted.
QUESTION:
Ok there have been alot of rumors flying around about this card and I
just wanted
to see when the fact ends and fiction begins.

Rumor #1: This card has already been given to UDE Judges Level 3 and
higher.

Rumor #2: The Seal of Orichalcos will be the next Shonen Jump Prize
Card a.k.a
SCJ-EN002

Rumor #3: The Seal of Orichalcos will be tournament legal.

Are any of these true? Are there even plans to release the Seal?
==============================================================================
ANSWER:

Master Dartz does not allow us to reveal his secrets.

Kevin Tewart
Game Designer
UDE Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG R&D Lead
Upper Deck Entertainment
I know that neither of these specifically say that "The Seal of Orichalcos" was used, but they do at least reference the Orichalcos.

As for Slifer, Roger Slipher is the co-producer of the English Yu-Gi-Oh! anime. There's also producer Lloyd Goldfine and the card "Great Mammoth of Goldfine". Apparently, Michelle Dunn (as in, "Rose Spectre of Dunn") was also a producer, although I can't find anything specifically saying that she worked on Yu-Gi-Oh!. (I can find one mentioning that she worked on Sonic X, another anime translated by 4Kids, but that doesn't really mean anything.)

Moreover, have you seen the image of the latest World Championship prize,Aggiba, the Malevolent Sh'nn S'yo? That's not exactly high quality. Imagine what the image would look like if the winner didn't allow that scan to be taken. Any images of "The Seal of Orichalcos" would probably have turned out worse, with quality ranging from "green blur" to "unidentifiable Spell Card".
 
I'm sorry, but saying that he's trustworthy isn't enough for me; he may believe his story, and he may not lie on any other occasion, but this story's been going around for years with no concrete, verifiable evidence to back it up. If they provided a picture of the duel, a flyer from UDE announcing the event, something like that, then there'd be some credence to their stories, but so far, it's all anecdotal, word of mouth hearsay, just stories that are passed on and repeated. It's part of the reason why I also don't believe in the story that Slifer the Sky Dragon got its American name from a 4Kids executive; I've tried to find evidence of that story, and there just isn't any, just the same rumor over and over again.

Think about it; supposedly, this happened at a big comic con years ago (more than 3, I know that much, since I've heard this story since at least 2005, if not earlier), and it was apparently a big event; you'd think that someone would have a link to an announcement on UDE's site boasting about it, or a flyer for the con with the event listed as one of their activities. Hell, I live in Indiana, and I've seen several flyers for GenCon each time it's held, so I know they list whatever YGO-related events. I'm actually watching a Duel the Master match from this year's GenCon, right now, and not only does it NOT have you duel against a representative from UDE or Konami, it also looks like your typical tournament duel but with a funky "house rule" set up, such as "All monsters are Gemini Monsters this duel" or something. Is this what the Duel the Master event that supposedly had the Seal of Orichalcos duel in it worked? None of the retellings of it from anyone I've talked to mention that.

I'm sorry, but it's been at least 3 years or so since this event supposedly happened, and with nothing but anecdotal hearsay to "prove" that it happened, I'm going to have to call shenanigans on the whole rumor. Besides, now that the OCG has Orichalcos Shunoros as an actual card, you'd think that someone from Konami or UDE would show up and show us "Hey, the Seal of Orichalcos is a real card! You were all right!".
Well, this is UDE we're talking about here. Between the internal drama on various forums and the dysfunctional relationship they had with Konami, what you would expect them to do is highly likely what they wouldn't do, or do the opposite. There was never a pattern with UDE that one could identify or agree with.

That caveat aside, I think the point Entropy is trying to make is Kenji confirmed that there was a "Seal of Orichalcos" that UDE employees were using, and if a you do a search of Pojo, you'll find Kevin Tewart makes mention of it as well. (For better or for worse, Pojo was THE site that the top UDE Yu-Gi-Oh! staff haunted.) So we know there was something printed, and it's not outside of the realm of possibility that it was used/played in some event, unannounced.

Now if your asking if the card is "real" in the sense that it's official, then no. But "real" in the sense that it was printed and in turn used at some special event by staff, well, that's entirely probable. And entirely probable they said nothing about it, as is (was) their custom.
 
I was asking if it was "real" in the sense that it exists in any form, and it was used by the employees of UDE during the "Duel the Master" tournament, and frankly, Tewert has lied his butt off way too much for me to trust his word. Like I said, I've looked at his and Kenji's comments about it, and they don't scream "Yes, this is real" to me; they all scream "Believe in the rumor, and join us in our crusade against Konami MUAHAHAHAHAHA!"

There is NO document I've found in GenCon's archives stating that you could duel against the Seal (it DOES call the event an "Orichalcos Duel the Master", but during the time it was held, that story arc was in full swing, so I wouldn't be surprised if they merely named it to take advantage of the coincidence, and had little to nothing to do with the card, itself), NO document in UDE's archives announcing this, and NO pictures of the actual duel or card, poor quality or no. Simply put, it's all just anecdotal accounts made AFTER the fact, several YEARS after the fact. I don't believe stuff like that without physical evidence to back it up, or documents that verify what they say. You would think that being able to duel against the Seal of Orichalcos would be such a big event, especially if it was held in a big enough convention like GenCon, that either the convention itself or UDE would have announced it in big bold letters, but no, we're forced to hear about it like an overheard bathroom stall insult, years after the supposed event happened. Plus, considering how this rumor has spawned rumors of other cards that UDE supposedly printed but never made public (like Nightmare Balance or playable God Cards, the latter of which I know isn't true, since Takahashi himself created the design for the first-ever playable Obelisk not a year ago), further gives credence that this isn't real, this is just a fantasy spurned on by UDE to get support. At least with Sh'nn S'yo, we have some visual proof of its existence, even if it's hard to make out what it is (we can still clearly see it's a new card with a distinct piece of artwork), and the Seal has a VERY distinct piece of artwork on it; I doubt that the quality of the pic would do much to prevent anyone from recognizing it. PLUS, we all know Konami has to approve of any cards that UDE distributes, so how could they allow them to create their own cards for their own use? It doesn't add up.

I'm sorry, but unless I get SOMETHING that proves conclusively that the card exists - a flyer announcing the ability to play against it from either UDE or GenCon, a picture or video of the duel, SOMETHING - it's a false rumor. MAYBE it'll become a real card, now that the OCG got Orichalcos Shunoros, but as for it existing NOW, I highly, HIGHLY doubt it.
 
Actually, Kenji has said the card exists, not just referring to rumor. That much we do know. But it's been spoken of as just a UDE thing. You remember how paranoid and secretive UDE was about things like this. The sense I always got was that they were terrified that a copy would get into the "wrong hands". I'm guessing it was no more complex a thing than it was something made just for employee fun, and never traded or scanned for the risk of loosing your job.
 
Actually, Kenji has said the card exists, not just referring to rumor. That much we do know. But it's been spoken of as just a UDE thing. You remember how paranoid and secretive UDE was about things like this. The sense I always got was that they were terrified that a copy would get into the "wrong hands". I'm guessing it was no more complex a thing than it was something made just for employee fun, and never traded or scanned for the risk of loosing your job.

That's not the impression I got from reading Kenji's comments; it seemed to me like he was getting tired of all of the speculation, and just rambled off something to satisfy the curious so the speculation would stop. Actually, between his and Tewert's statements, the impression I got was they were purposely keeping the truth about whether or not the card was real ambiguous and vague for different reasons: Kenji wanted the speculation to stop, and was hoping that by not giving an answer, eventually the fans will give up, while Tewert was encouraging the speculation to get more fans. Either way, they never give a definitive answer as to whether it's real or not, just hints that it COULD be real.

And the whole "they were paranoid into secrecy" thing doesn't work with me for one reason alone: why would they be paranoid about a card that they used for a "Duel the Master" tournament at GenCon? That's the rumor, that's always been the rumor, and if you don't delve too deep into what Tewert and Kenji said, they seem to confirm that's what happened. So, why would they be so paranoid of letting on that the card exists if they've already made a big spectacle about it during a highly-touted and anticipated tournament at an equally touted and anticipated convention? I've been following the announcement that the "Duel the Master" event was coming back in this year's GenCon; duelists were frothing at the mouth for it! You can't tell me that, if the card was real and it was used in one of these tournaments in the past, they wouldn't hype the hell out of it, because they were afraid of what would happen if word of its existence got out. Besides, the card hasn't been released at all, and they supposedly only used the card in a public tournament ONCE, so why would they be paranoid of people knowing about its existence? It just doesn't make sense.

There's just way too many pieces missing for this to be a credible story, to me; the fact that no one has any pictures or videos of the event is highly suspicious to me, as is the lack of announcements from UDE or GenCon announcing the card; all of the anecdotal accounts of the event all come years after it supposedly happened, including Kenji's and Tewert's statements on it; no one can even remember the name of the UDE rep that played it during the event...There's just too many things missing from the equation that can confirm the rumors as truth. All we have to go by are vague and inconsistent hearsay, and that does not evidence of existence make. So, I'm sticking to my guns here and calling shenanigans on the whole thing; it doesn't exist, it never did exist, and the rumor was just a publicity stunt by Tewert and UDE to gain more fans.
 
Not paranoid that the card exists. Paranoid that the card would see the light of day other than where they wanted it too.

Kenji did confirm that the cards existed. What he speculated on was the situation the poster was referring to. The speculation wasn't as to whether the cards existed. The speculation was as to whether that specific situation was the same thing that person was talking about.

The only evidence we have is a few UDE employees word on the matter, and I don't really see it as anything off the wall (for UDE anyway). It's not like they don't print cards that can't even be used officially, as they've done it before, and it's not unusual for a company to make stuff for company use only; just for fun. It's also not unlikely that they'd never let a scan or a copy get out.

Sure, there's no way to conclusively prove it. But it's not like it's physically impossible. I'll call shenanigans on anything that just isn't feasible, but there's actually more evidence to say it did happen, than to say it couldn't. In the end, though, I don't think they did themselves any favors keeping it a secret. If anything, the rumor, with no visual verification, did more harm than good. Fans never really liked the whole National Security-type approach UDE and Konami took to this game. It's was like them to do stuff that was initially a good idea, but in the end just, well, stupid.
 
Not paranoid that the card exists. Paranoid that the card would see the light of day other than where they wanted it too.

Kenji did confirm that the cards existed. What he speculated on was the situation the poster was referring to. The speculation wasn't as to whether the cards existed. The speculation was as to whether that specific situation was the same thing that person was talking about.

The only evidence we have is a few UDE employees word on the matter, and I don't really see it as anything off the wall (for UDE anyway). It's not like they don't print cards that can't even be used officially, as they've done it before, and it's not unusual for a company to make stuff for company use only; just for fun. It's also not unlikely that they'd never let a scan or a copy get out.

Sure, there's no way to conclusively prove it. But it's not like it's physically impossible. I'll call shenanigans on anything that just isn't feasible, but there's actually more evidence to say it did happen, than to say it couldn't. In the end, though, I don't think they did themselves any favors keeping it a secret. If anything, the rumor, with no visual verification, did more harm than good. Fans never really liked the whole National Security-type approach UDE and Konami took to this game. It's was like them to do stuff that was initially a good idea, but in the end just, well, stupid.

I can't accept that. The problem is, they've "confirmed" the rumor in its entirety, both that the card was real AND that it was played in a "Duel the Master" tournament. That means they've ALREADY exposed it to the public, so getting paranoid about it "falling into the wrong hands" is stupid, especially when you consider ONLY the UDE staff had access to it. It's the equivalent to the government confirming rumors that they once had a public open house at Area 51 where they showed they did indeed have alien bodies and artifacts inside, but then refuse to provide any proof that it happened out of concern that it could fall into the "wrong hands"; if the rumor IS true, then you've ALREADY exposed the public to it, and given the chance for the "wrong hands" to get a hold of the information. There's no reason TO be paranoid about that...unless it ISN'T true, and you are, in fact, lying to perpetuate the myth.

Like I said, Tewert and UDE are NOTORIOUS for lying about and exaggerating their achievements in order to make themselves out to be better than Konami, and this sounds like one of their spin campaigns. And without any proof that this event actually happened as the rumors describe, or any proof that the card is, in fact, real. And while Konami HAS created cards that aren't legal to be played, they HAVE been publically announced AND released as trophies, so I don't see why a card like the Seal of Orichalcos would be so special, especially now that Orichalcos Shunoros is a real card. No, I'm sorry, but I have to continue to call shenanigans on this, unless a picture or a flyer or SOMETHING other than the same word-of-mouth rumor over and over again is brought in to prove definitively that it's real.
 
That means they've ALREADY exposed it to the public, so getting paranoid about it "falling into the wrong hands" is stupid, especially when you consider ONLY the UDE staff had access to it.

Well, yes. That's exactly what I'm saying. UDE/Konami is notorious for doing things that just don't make any sense.

Like I said, Tewert and UDE are NOTORIOUS for lying about and exaggerating their achievements in order to make themselves out to be better than Konami, and this sounds like one of their spin campaigns.
Tewart I know has a bad rep for that. UDE on the other hand I've never considered dishonest. Disoriented, yeah, but not dishonest. There's no reason for them to make something up that was entirely within they're power to make happen.
 
Well, yes. That's exactly what I'm saying. UDE/Konami is notorious for doing things that just don't make any sense.


Tewart I know has a bad rep for that. UDE on the other hand I've never considered dishonest. Disoriented, yeah, but not dishonest. There's no reason for them to make something up that was entirely within they're power to make happen.

I'm not sure if you frequented the UDE boards before Konami took full control of the game, but they made frequent exaggerated and downright untruthful claims about what they've done to the game. Not just Tewert, but several of the reps on their boards. If anything, they were likely ordered by Tewert to make those claims, and I wouldn't be surprised if this is the case, here.

Again, there's no physical proof of this card's existence other than Tewert's and Kenji's statements, and those statements were simply rehashes of the same old rumor that had been going around for years done in a way to neither confirm nor deny that it really did happen; they were pretty much saying "Well, that IS the rumor going around, isn't it? I guess we'll never know..." That, to me, is NOT conclusive proof that the card exists, at all; if it's real, and it was used as it's said it was, there should be SOMETHING that confirms it: a flyer from UDE or GenCon announcing it, a video or photo of the duel, something. But no, all we have is a single rumor regurgitated by both the fans and the company over and over again. And there's no reason for them to perpetuate the myth's ambiguity if it actually happened; as I said before, if the card WAS real, and it WAS used in a "Duel the Master" tournament at GenCon, then there's no reason for them to be concerned that someone would get a hold of it or information about it that shouldn't have it, since it was ALREADY made public by its use in the tournament, and it was only used that one time, in full control of the UDE staff, and NEVER let out of their control before, during, or afterward. It's the equivalent of "confirming" that you held an open-house showing off a one-of-a-kind Babe Ruth rookie baseball card at the Baseball Hall of Fame, then getting cold feet on confirming the details of the exhibit or the card in question, because you're concerned someone might try to get a hold of the card; it's already been made public that the card exists, and whoever would want the card would've had their opportunity to get it during the exhibit and didn't. And, now that an Orichalcos card has already been created, there's no reason for Konami to keep the card's existence a secret, any longer, as they could easily release it as either an unplayable tournament trophy or reprint it as a nerfed Shuisha promo. The only way I can see to explain away all these inconsistencies is that the card is NOT real, the event did NOT take place as stated in the rumor, and it was all just another bit of false bragging on UDE's part to get more people on their side of the OCG/TCG war.
 
If it was made for employees only, then you why would there HAVE to be some kind of evidence for it to exist?
 
If it was made for employees only, then you why would there HAVE to be some kind of evidence for it to exist?

Because if the rumor is true, which Tewert's and Kenji's statements hint that it is, then it was played in a public tournament, exposed to the fans. What are they hiding NOW if they've already shown the public in the PAST that the card exists? The tournament was held, someone dueled against the card, several spectators saw the duel in progress, and in fact, several of the people I talked to who swear the rumor is true claim to have been there to see it first-hand (though, of course, no pictures or videos to prove this, and their account of the incident is suspiciously exactly like those of the guys who believe it was real, but never was at GenCon to see it). It's already been exposed to the public, and the public thus knows that it's real. So what do they have to gain to keep its existence a secret now? That's like the guy with the rookie card denying a glimpse of the card to prove that it's real years after the open house to see it at the Hall of Fame took place; you've already proven that it's real, with the expose, so what do you have to hide by refusing to prove that it's real, now?

That's the big thing that makes me think this rumor is bogus; everyone and their mothers, including Word of God, insists that it's real, but NO ONE will provide a lick of verifiable evidence to back up their claims; no pictures, no videos, no flyers announcing the event, nothing. I even checked the flyer linked on here for the GenCon that supposedly held it, and it said NOTHING about being able to duel against the Seal (again, they DID slap the label "Orichalcos" on the Duel the Master event, but that doesn't prove anything, and was probably done as a publicity stunt to tie into the DOMA arc that was playing on the show, at the time, kinda like how they named one of the World Championship trophy cards "Get Your Game On!" as a nod to the GX series that was running, at the time, or how they renamed the local tournament packs "Turbo Packs" to coincide with the airing of 5D's). And every account is the same, with no one knowing exactly which GenCon held it, who the UDE rep that was dueled against was, who won the chance to duel against the Seal, what decks were played, etc. No physical proof that the event exists, and nothing but vague hearsay to verify its existence. That is nowhere near evidence that this thing is real. Quite the opposite, in fact; this has all the earmarks of a fraud, a publicity stunt spouted by UDE that was never real, but ended up running out of control because it was so popular, and fans were gullible at the time to believe them.
 
I think you're trying to reason the behavior of people who often didn't act reasonable. Why did they wait three years to errata Ultimate Offering so that it said what it actually did, rather than allow it to circulate for years with a completely different effect and a contradictory ruling? Why did the Judges List enforce rules over and over and over again, and then do a complete reversal of those rules as if that was the way it always was, never even removing the old posts with the previous rulings or even making an announcement? Why did they insist that the Level 2 and 3 judges only ask questions that actually came up in tournament, when asking hypothetical questions of peculiar card interactions could answer so many questions about other interactions and possibilities?

UDE did strange and unexplainable things all the time. Admittedly, their hands were tied by the strange and unusual things Konami asked them to do, but it was still inexplicable from our standpoint.

You can believe it's bogus if you wish, but generally, there's a purpose behind bogus claims. An ultimate goal. Not just the wish to make a claim so that it's out there with no benefit to them. I'd get why you'd insist it was bogus if UDE came off better for the rumor in some way. But they don't. They just sound like they made something for employees and kept to themselves. If anything, the nonsensical actions of keeping the card off the internet sounds more like them than your suggestion of them making it up.

As far as pictures go, I don't recall them allowing you to use cameras at major events like that. A one time event that only a few people could have crowded around, and even few of them having cameras and video phones, why would there HAVE to be pictures? And why would there be a flier for something that they didn't have any intention of distributing? That's like telling me I didn't go to Disney because I didn't bring any pictures or receipts back. Look, I get what you're saying. But this just doesn't seem important enough for them to be making up. It doesn't gain them a lick of anything. It's just too trivial for such an elaborate conspiracy.
 
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I think you're taking this a bit too seriously. The card was basically a prop to be used in a single event, and after that the prop was discarded. It was a fun event, poking a reference at the anime and letting people see how they'd do against the Orichalcos in a side event at a tournament.

It's a prop. It's not even a real card. That is, it's not official (it's still card-shaped, of course); it was never intended to be considered a part of the game, not even as an unplayable promo or anything.

And as such, only the UDE staff got one of these props. UDE then shut up about it because it was never meant to be part of the game, just a fun little feature of an event at some point. Continuing to talk about it as though it were an actual card and belonged to the game would doubtless give people the wrong idea ("I want a copy!", "I'll have an unofficial tournament in which Orichalos is legal to use.", etc. etc.).

Imagine if, instead of an Orichalcos card, it was one of those Ancient Egyptian items Yami Bakura/Yami Yugi use against each other in the last season ("Suddenly I am turning back time to before you defeated me"). Again, it's just a prop, but some of the foolish players may become convinced it's actually a part of the game if the official people (UDE at that time) said something vaguely confirming its existence. A little less likely than in the case of a prop card, but same principle.

Have you ever considered that? The event was done, the prop has been used, they want to drop it. It's people like you that won't let them.
 
No, it's people like you who believe the rumor that won't "let them drop it". No, really; the moment the event even comes up in a conversation, the believers are all over it, demanding belief in it like it's their mission to convert the unbeliever to it. At least, that's usually how it turns out, whenever I see it brought up. The believers are usually the ones that are more vehement about this topic than the unbelievers or those who don't care, either way.

You're not getting what I'm saying about the flyers; the announcement would be for the chance to PLAY AGAINST IT, NOT for its release. Again, it would be like someone confirming they displayed their Babe Ruth rookie card at the Baseball Hall of Fame, but no flyers announcing the event showing up; the flyer isn't announcing the chance to GET the rookie card, only to SEE it, and if it was a big enough deal for rumors about it to circulate, then surely there SHOULD'VE been SOME announcement about it. If I confirmed a rumor that I got to see Kelly Clarkson in concert at the state fair a few years ago, but a search into the events calender of the fair for the year it supposedly happened didn't come up with anything, would you still believe that I actually saw her? No, you wouldn't, and why? Because, despite Kelly Clarkson in concert being a really big deal, especially if it happened during a big event like a state fair, there was no announcement for it. Same thing, here; being able to duel against the Seal would be a huge deal, even if you don't win it as a prize, and you'd think that either UDE or GenCon would announce it, but neither of them did, so how can I believe that it actually happened?

You are allowed to take pictures of GenCon and YGO tournaments, otherwise videos like
wouldn't have been made. Fan photos and videos of GenCon and Regionals have been circulating through the internet for years, so if this was an actual event, there would be some visual evidence of it.

I already mentioned why they would set up the rumor; they were at odds with Konami, and wanted more of the fans on their side. What better way of doing that then to hype up one of their achievements? Them spreading this rumor to make themselves look better than Konami to draw interest away from Konami to them is perfectly within line of what we know of their practices, and it seems to have worked; a good deal of the people I've talked to on UDE's forum and elsewhere who believes the rumors are diehard UDE supporters, which was probably their goal; trick people into believing a fabrication of theirs that makes them look superior than Konami, and gain more followers as a result.

Also, didn't they give away a replica of the Millennium Puzzle as a prize during one World Championship tournament? The analogy you're making isn't working, in that case, especially since the Seal has a definite effect that anyone who watched the show could verify if they saw it, an effect that CAN translate to the real world game. It doesn't matter if it was just a prop, it supposedly existed AND WAS PLAYED at the GenCon Duel the Master, so SOMEONE should've seen it and been able to confirm both its existence and the duel. No one can; no one has pictures, no one has video, no one has flyers announcing the chance to duel against it, NOTHING. There is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that the event OR the card happened.

Also, your analogy about "just because I don't have anything to prove I went to Disney doesn't mean I didn't" is stupid, because that's exactly the point I was trying to make; how can anyone believe that you went to Disneyland or Disney World if you have no pictures or video, no receipts, nor memorabilia, no souvenirs, nor flyers or pamphlets proving that you went there? I can't just take your word for it; if you vanish for a few weeks, come back, and say you went to a specific place, but you provide no evidence verifying your claim, and I can't find any evidence to prove you did go there, then how can I be sure you DID go there? Blind faith? If you were my teacher, and I told you I did an assignment and I should get an "A" in it, but I don't produce a single thing that shows that I actually DID it - no paperwork, no notes, no photos or video showing off the assignment, not even an audio recording of me rehearsing the assignment - would you believe me? No, you wouldn't; you'd assume I didn't do it, nail me with an F, and force me to do it all over again. Even UFO sightings and claims about Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster has SOME visual evidence to back up their claims, as unclear and sketchy as they may be. But this? Not even a whisper of evidence.

It seems to me like you guys are keeping the rumor alive by believing in it, not me for trying to disprove it. You rationalize why there isn't any evidence to back it up, coddle UDE's silence on the matter as a potential security risk (which is stupid, especially if it was "just a prop that was thrown out" as you say it was; why bother protecting a piece of cardboard that couldn't even be passed off as a real card, in the first place?), and encourage other people to blindly accept that the card and the event is real as is rumored without trying to check up on its veracity. That gives credence to my belief that UDE started the rumor in an attempt to gain more followers; it obviously worked, since you're unwilling to NOT trust their word on this, despite all of the lies and exaggerations they've given in the past. And what about GenCon? Surely they don't follow the same standards as UDE when it comes to this rumor; UDE was their GUEST there, and if they wanted to, they could cancel their booth and events at any time. If ANYONE would have any evidence that the duel against the Seal was real, THEY would have it, but not even THEY do. Just to make sure, I'm emailing them with this question, right now, so we'll see what they say, though I doubt they'll confirm it.

EDIT: I was right; they said they "weren't privy to that information", and thus couldn't confirm it. Things get more and more suspicious, and further bend towards the rumors being fake than true. I'm sorry, but with only the rumor to prove that it's real, I've got to call it: it's not, it never was, UDE was just screwing with us to garner more interest in themselves and steal fans from Konami at the time.
 
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It seems you've misinterpreted our stance. I didn't say it did happen. I said it's just said it's plausible. You've taken a hard line stance that it didn't. Conversely, I'm nowhere near that convinced that it did. But it's just too minor of event to have just been made up. It would be like making up that I got a McRib Sandwich form McDonald's. No I don't have a receipt to prove they brought the sandwich back for one day only. But why would I even bother making up such a trivial story in the first place?

You might very well be right. I might very well be right. I'm just leaning more in my direction for the reasons I've stated already.

And let's be fair. You did bring the subject up, not us. Until today, I never knew anyone who had any real doubt about it's veracity. And it's the first time it's ever been brought up in this forum. Not really fair to say we're "keeping it alive". We just don't doubt it. As is our right to do so. We're not talking about the Twin Tower conspiracy here. We're talking about the printing of a card that was never going to be something the masses would ever get to have in the first place.
 
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