As an aside, I still don't see how this garners UDE any fans, being that they would never have been able to make the card in the first place with Konami's permission.
The Orichalcos Conspiracy
- Thread starter SynjoDeonecros
- Start date
- Status
SynjoDeonecros
New Member
Oh, but that's the beauty of this rumor: along with UDE's talk about their contributions to the game, it's implied that they COULD and DID do it behind Konami's back. With the rumor in place and circulating, they'd be able to convince fans that they care more about their needs than Konami does because they're catering to the fans' wishes with events like this, and if they could get a bit more support, they could wrench the game from Konami and continue to treat the fans to what they want. Of course, the recent counterfeiting incident that forced UDE to give up their claim to the game proved their stance deluded and wrong, but we have several accounts where UDE has lied, cheated, and exaggerated their contributions to the game JUST to make themselves look good, JUST to get more support from fans, and JUST to take attention away from Konami. These are the same people who said Kazuki Takahasi, the game's and anime's CREATOR, was on their side, and demanded that fans do NOT look to the OCG for information on upcoming card news. Them making up a rumor about an event of THEIR OWN CREATION giving you the chance to duel against a card OF THEIR OWN PRINTING that THEY SOLELY OWN for more publicity and fan following is perfectly within their behavior, and their ambiguous statements about the card's reality pushes the credibility that they made it up to goad the fans onto their side even farther. And, before you say it, once they got that support and overthrew Konami and took over the game, they could EASILY have reprinted the card for widespread use. That's what they tried to do with the Vintage counterfeits, after all.
I can't believe that you guys are acting like this is a trivial thing, because it's not; if the card and the event that depicted it actually happened, IT WOULD'VE BEEN A BIG THING. Let's look at what the rumor purports: during the "Duel the Master" tournament event at GenCon, a huge convention in Indiana with its own big fan following, AND a convention event so popular with YGO fans that, when it was announced it would be brought back for this year's GenCon, you could not go onto any board without hearing several fans gush over it, fans would be able to get the chance to duel against a UDE rep who has a deck that contains the Seal of Orichalcos, a challenge that was touted in the rumor to be set up solely to give fans the ability to test their mettle against one of the "god cards" of the original anime. This would be the equivalent of going to a UDE tournament with the announcement that anyone who wins it gets the chance to duel against a UDE rep wielding legal versions of the Egyptian God Cards, you would NEVER find a fan that would NOT be interested in it. How is that, in any way, trivial? It's a major opportunity at a major event at a major convention. How could you trivialize that?
Oh, btw, you obviously haven't seen how McDonalds hype up the return of the McRib; they KNOW the fans will eat it up (both literally and figuratively) if they knew they were bringing it back.
Your arguments are, quite frankly, flawed to the point of being broken. No offense, but it honestly doesn't sound like you have any knowledge whatsoever with the rumor or the events or places it describes. Saying that it's "too trivial of an event for UDE to make it up" just shows your ignorance of UDE, GenCon, the "Duel the Master" event, the card in question, or fan reaction to any of the above. Simply put, it is NOT possible for this to happen, AT ALL; if it was big enough to spawn a rumor about it that lasted until today, then it was big enough to have considerable documentation of it in the form of announcements, flyers, advertisements, etc. And considering how big of an event both GenCon AND the "Duel the Master" tournament are, there is NO WAY IN HELL that it would NOT garner at least SOME attention OR advertisement. The sneak previews are MORE insignificant than those, as it happens several times a year and all it does is give you early access to a set's cards - not exactly something to write home about - yet both UDE AND Konami give significant advertising to it. How can you explain that?
I'm sorry, but no, this is not a rumor that could by any conceivable notion happen, and by all logic DID NOT happen. There's no physical proof of ANY kind that either the card existed OR that the tournament it was supposedly featured in went down as the rumors claim it did, no reason why UDE would be afraid to confirm the rumor's veracity if it actually happened as stated, since they would have NOTHING TO LOSE BY REVEALING THE CARD'S EXISTENCE, since they had ALREADY shown the public that it was real, and the sheer size and popularity of both the convention AND the tournament the card was supposedly in makes it IMPOSSIBLE for it to have NOT gotten SOME sort of publicity, especially if they wanted to draw in more players to the event. Even the vague "confirmation" from Tewert and Kenji are moot, as not only do they seem to shove the issue aside instead of giving a straight answer, but they've been known and confirmed to give false, inaccurate, and exaggerated accounts of their contributions to the game to make thmselves look better and convince the fans to side with them, so there's no reason to take their word on this particular rumor. The ONLY thing we have to prove that the rumor actually happened is the rumor itself, and that is not proof at all. And with all possible explanations for why the rumor IS true shot down, the ONLy explanation that remains - and makes sense - is that it ISN'T true.
Okay, I didn't have a chance to read all the way though just yet, but that's just reaching. That's sounds more like a conspiracy theory then the simplest answer. Usually the simplest answer is the most likely.
Heh, okay, I know nothing about UDE. Here's the thing. You're suggesting that because it would have been huge that surely they would have announced it. Ask yourself if that's what cons do in practice. Cons often surprise their guests with special one time events, no advanced warning. The advanced previews of Tron: Reloaded and 300 come to mind. It's trivial, because it doesn't get them anything more then what they would have gotten otherwise. I think maybe your over inflating people interest in the Orichalcos card, a card from three anime back. Ask around at your local shop of players. See how many would actually care if a card they couldn't have, and therefore couldn't trade or sell, was going to be at an event. Said to say, the majority of Yu-Gi-Oh! players care more about what they can get out of an event (either victory, cash or more valuable cards) then they do about swag. And this is swag that they can't even own. This wasn't something worth making such a big deal about. It's a blip in the history of the TCG. Nothing more, nothing less.
Look, continue to believe what you will. But I don't take such hard line approaches to things just because I can't find proof of them on the internet. Kenji said they were printed. I have no reason to not believe him. Whether it exists or not is not going to lower the pricefor a Des Volstagalph for me . In the end, UDE gains/gained nothing from such a rumor, and neither do we.
SynjoDeonecros
New Member
And I think you're trying to apply current elitist mindset to a fandom that was still in its infancy during the time this rumor supposedly happened.
Seriously, this event happened during the DOMA saga, right after the Battle City arc, and the game had just barely gotten into the real meat of the GX-centric sets; I believe they were up to Cybernetic Revolution, by the time the GenCon that supposedly held the Orichalcos tournament happened. The kind of hardcore elitist tournament duelists we have, nowadays, were still a minority, and naive fans of the anime were still widely prevalent. People were still talking about the possibility of playable Egyptian God cards, and still thought that they were valuable enough to save for paying their way through college, so it makes sense that they'd be excited at the prospect of dueling against the Seal, if only to see how well they'd do against it. Nowadays, yes, no one would give a care about something like that, but back in the day, we were ALL naive and were barely getting a taste of how real tournament-breaking decks like Envoy-Yata could change the face of tournament dueling forever. Remember the old saying I stand by, with this game: back in the day, people thought Pot of Avarice sucked, too.
And if you think I'm reaching with the whole "UDE is trying to convince us they can and will take the game away from Konami and do what they want with it behind their backs", then you are REALLY naive and gullible. One only needs to look at the recent fiasco between them and Konami about the Vintage card packs to realize just how true this statement is. In case you don't know, here's the gist of it: Konami got word that UDE, without their permission, began printing counterfeits of existing McDonalds promotional cards for distribution, giving them to the company Vintage so they could sell them in various Toys R' Us' across the US and Canada. I've seen the cards in question, and I know for a fact that they are fake, and not reprints that Konami authorized. UDE refused to cop to the counterfeits, insisting someone else was making them, and even going so far as to claim that they had raided "secret factories in China" for proof exposing the "real" forgers. These cards, btw, had been sold in Toys R' Us for a good year or two before Konami caught them, so yes, UDE WAS making them behind their back. And this is why Konami now has full control of the game on both hemispheres instead of UDE; the judge finally acknowledged that there was sufficient evidence to prove without a doubt that UDE was responsible, and allowed for the contract to be terminated. Hell, when Konami tried to suspend the flow of cards to UDE for distribution, UDE announced they were going to go ahead and distribute the cards, anyway, holding their own tournaments and whatnot in defiance of Konami's meddling. They had no respect for Konami or their authority, and were full willing and delusional in their ability to defy their Japanese overseers to do their own thing and take the game away from them. And this was just the culmination of UDE's years-long crusade against Konami, slamming them with demonizing propaganda, urging players to NOT get their card information from any other source than themselves, claiming that Takahashi himself was on their side, etc. They fully believed that they could do what they want with the game, to hell with what Konami thought or cared, and if they can convince as many of the game's fans of that, and make it seem like a GOOD thing, then so be it. This is nowhere NEAR a stretch for me to state that they were likey doing this with the Seal rumor; in fact, as I've said countless times before, this is perfectly within their known personality and disposition.
As for the 'cons, I talked with a rep from GenCon, and they said that they only advertise what their guests choose to advertise, but that doesn't mean that if UDE felt it was such a big deal to announce it at the time, they wouldn't have. Like I said, if the rumor is true, and the card was real and was used in a tournament at GenCon, then that would have been a big deal, big enough for UDE to want to announce it. It must've been, for the rumor to have spawned and persist as it's had. Again, I have to direct you to how UDE and Konami announce the Sneak Preview each time it's being held; not only do they announce when the event is being held and where, but they also announce what the promotional card is, what the prize is for winning each tournament, and any other special events or guest stars that they choose to hold, at that time. And they do it in such a big and grandiose manner. When they announced the return of the "Duel the Master" tournament at GenCon, this year, they made a big deal out of it, because they wanted to get people interested in it. They would NOT hesitate to announce if they were going to do something special with one of these events, like giving the participants a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to duel against an uber-powerful card from the anime that will only be around for that one event. That's the kind of publicity that they FEED off of, especially in a convention, where they're competing with other vendors for attention from the fans. The Tron trailer being kept a secret is understandable, because the people behind that knew they could get a bigger response if they sprung it on the convention goers as a surprise than if they announced it right from the get-go; no one was expecting a new Tron movie, and they wanted to play off of that unpreparedness of the convention-goers for the news. Konami and UDE, though, aren't like that, and know that their fans will scour every inch of their website and the other news sites looking for ANY information about upcoming events, so keeping it a secret just wouldn't work; in fact, it would have the OPPOSITE effect, as the fans would get ticked off that it was withheld from them until then. It would be more detrimental to them NOT to announce it beforehand than it would if they DID.
And, need I remind you that all the jerkish claims by UDE of their superiority over Konami was NOT JUST from Tewert, but also from REPRESENTATIVES on their website and other forums? Pojo is infamous for being a platform for Tewert and other UDE employees to tout their company's horn, and that includes Kenji, so - considering what we know now of UDE's claims - there's EVERY reason that he's lying through his teeth about this, if not by himself, then because he was ordered by Tewert to do so. Considering they both visit the same forum and made similar claims about the card and the event that housed it, how can you NOT be suspicious of what either of them says, outside of blind ignorance and faith in the infallibility of UDE? Word of God means nothing if that same God is known to habitually cry wolf, people.
In the end, it's true that UDE didn't gain anything from this rumor, as they never got the game under their full control, and in fact LOST whatever control they had. However, up until that point, they had gained a LOT of publicity from the rumor, and a LOT of fanboys who joined their side because they were convinced of the rumor's veracity. In the end, they got the fan support they needed to go as far with their plans to control the game as they did, and that has to count for something.
Also, in the end, there's STILL no verifiable physical evidence that it happened and the card existed, so the rumor is still bogus, anyway.
You're calling the Cybernetic Revelation era the games infancy? Just how new are you to the game?
I said you can believe what you wish. But you haven't really done much here but to convince me that you're convinced that it didn't happen by making sweeping statements about things you actually have no evidence of yourself. There's you're problem. You have no evidence that it didn't happen. Surely you can understand that people are going to more likely believe UDE employees over random board members debating it endlessly, whether you think their shady or not.
I just got called elitist. Who'd a thunk it?
I said you can believe what you wish. But you haven't really done much here but to convince me that you're convinced that it didn't happen by making sweeping statements about things you actually have no evidence of yourself. There's you're problem. You have no evidence that it didn't happen. Surely you can understand that people are going to more likely believe UDE employees over random board members debating it endlessly, whether you think their shady or not.
I just got called elitist. Who'd a thunk it?
DarkLogicianOfCaos
Eschew Obfuscation
Jerome has an Oricalcos Card. He does use it in Duel the Master. It is all for fun. The idea is to not beat the Master, but to have some fun with kooky set-ups and wild rules. Yes, people do win (2 at GenCon 09--sorry Jerome, if I'm letting the cat out), building their decks around the rules and then getting a lucky spin (not roll) for the 1:10 games they built for. If you ask me, this spoils the intent of the game and makes it less enjoyable. It is like cheating, knowing ahead what the decks and rules are and building for that.
There will NEVER be an Oricalcos card released, unless, like the Egyptian God Cards that are in Japan, it is heavily NERFFED. After all....Spell Speed 4? Please!! Now can we stop the arguing and move on.....Please?
There will NEVER be an Oricalcos card released, unless, like the Egyptian God Cards that are in Japan, it is heavily NERFFED. After all....Spell Speed 4? Please!! Now can we stop the arguing and move on.....Please?
SynjoDeonecros
New Member
I've been with the game ever since it came here to the states, and yes, the game WAS still in its infancy, by Cybernetic Revolution; the metagame mentality as we know it today was just BARELY forming in the wake of the Envoy incident, and the transition from the original series to GX - in both the card game AND the anime, was just getting underway. If you honestly believe that people's lust for ONLY winning a tournament for money or new card releases was universal even back then, then you really ARE naive.
And yes, I can understand that they'd believe UDE over a random dude...but only because those people are deluded fanboys dedicated to UDE and refusing to believe they can do any wrong. Honestly, that's the only reason why ANYONE would continue to believe UDE, after all of the crap they've done, during their stint as western distributor of the game; if they were so blinded by their devotion to UDE that they ignore everything that they've done to believe any positive propaganda about themselves tha they spew out. Yes, it's very appealing to believe that UDE created the card and used it in a big tournament, because - as an American distributor - we have more accessability to them than to anyone at Konami of Japan, and they know just what to say to make us feel like they give a damn about our feelings. Seriously "no matter how shady I THINK they are"? There is no "thinking" about it; they ARE shady. Here is just a sample of the incident between UDE and Konami that forced the game out of UDE's hands. I'm sure, since you love Pojo so much, you can do a search on there for the full details.
It's true that I'm just speculating about why the rumor would come about and persist, but let me remind you that THERE IS NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER THAT THE RUMOR IS TRUE. A vague comment from a lying idiot isn't going to change that fact. No photos, no video, no flyers, no announcements, NOTHING to prove it exists AT ALL.
DarkLogician, who is this "Jerome" and how could he have a Seal of Orichalcos if it was only used one time in 2005 AND the card supposedly was only owned by UDE? I've seen videos of this year's "Duel the Master" event, and while the random rule change WAS real (I saw a few duels where non-reptile cards got A-counters on them when summoned, and one where all Effect monsters were treated as Gemini monsters), but NO MENTION OF THE SEAL. Seriously, this rumor is so damned prevalent, you'd think that the card showing up again at the event would garner SOME attention from the participants there. And again, you're refusing to provide ANY evidence OTHER than your word-of-mouth testimony that it happened. Big surprise. Like they say on the internet, pics or it doesn't exist.
And they would NEVER release an Orichalcos card? Oh, I dunno about that... After all, they released this card to the public.
Yes, it's severely changed from the original (it's now more of a Normal Monster support card than anything), but if I told you I was expecting Konami to release THIS, I would be lying. How does THAT fly in the face of your assumptions about the card, hmm?
I'll stop arguing this point, after this, but only because - if this doesn't convince you guys that there's more precedence to believe the rumor to be false than to swear it's true - then you really are idiots and UDE elitists. Just don't come crawling back to me telling me I didn't tell you so when your blind belief of this nonsense turns out to be fruitless.
My first attempt at this post got lost, somehow. This is the abridged version.
We're all entitled to think whatever we want about this. Personally, I'd like to think they did make an Orichalcos prop. It sounds like it'd be fun, which is exactly what the Beat The Master thing is about.
But whether we believe it did exist or not doesn't mean we're rabid fanboys about it. I believe it existed, but my reaction is nothing more than "hmm, interesting". I wasn't jumping all over UDE demanding proof/reprints/etc.
Really, precedence doesn't swing the vote one way or the other. UDE hasn't been 100% honest in the past, but this is exactly the kind of thing they do at these side events. They didn't advertise it, but I'm sure they haven't mentioned other (more important) things beforehand either. It could go either way.
Try seeing this Orichalcos thing for what it is - a bit of fun at one event in the past that coincided with the (then) recent anime. And treat it like that, like the "non-Reptiles gain an A-Counter when they're Summoned" variant. It's really just not something important.
I can see why UDE were reluctant to say anything about it. Saying anything remotely like a "yes, it did exist at one point" would have people clamouring for it to be produced as an official card, which would be a lot more hassle.
You haven't exactly convinced me you're the logical voice of things here, with your dialogue (not an argument). You've made way too many sweeping generalisations, some of which aren't even correct.
Wow. So you've seen that they'll have side events where they change some of the rules of the game for the sake of a bit of fun, and yet you flat-out refuse to acknowledge that they may have at one point in the past created a fake card that does the same thing?
Arguing? That's not what you're doing. What you're doing is more akin to a religious fanatic, convinced your stance is correct regardless of any actual logical points. And then you insult us like that.
We're all entitled to think whatever we want about this. Personally, I'd like to think they did make an Orichalcos prop. It sounds like it'd be fun, which is exactly what the Beat The Master thing is about.
But whether we believe it did exist or not doesn't mean we're rabid fanboys about it. I believe it existed, but my reaction is nothing more than "hmm, interesting". I wasn't jumping all over UDE demanding proof/reprints/etc.
Really, precedence doesn't swing the vote one way or the other. UDE hasn't been 100% honest in the past, but this is exactly the kind of thing they do at these side events. They didn't advertise it, but I'm sure they haven't mentioned other (more important) things beforehand either. It could go either way.
Try seeing this Orichalcos thing for what it is - a bit of fun at one event in the past that coincided with the (then) recent anime. And treat it like that, like the "non-Reptiles gain an A-Counter when they're Summoned" variant. It's really just not something important.
I can see why UDE were reluctant to say anything about it. Saying anything remotely like a "yes, it did exist at one point" would have people clamouring for it to be produced as an official card, which would be a lot more hassle.
You haven't exactly convinced me you're the logical voice of things here, with your dialogue (not an argument). You've made way too many sweeping generalisations, some of which aren't even correct.
Sakura Sakamoto
Active Member
the seal of orichalcos is real see you can buy it from hong kong on ebay it's parallel rare its reraly shiny and it looks awesome web link below
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/items/__the+...word=the+seal+of+orichalcos&ff4=228459_228460
thats bigger than i thought it would be.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/items/__the+...word=the+seal+of+orichalcos&ff4=228459_228460
thats bigger than i thought it would be.
Just wondering, but is your issue with the actual card existing, or with UDE using a fake card in a duel? Hypothetically, let's say that they (allegedly) used the back of a real card, put a bit of masking tape on it, and wrote "The Seal of Orichalcos" on the bit of tape; they then used it as a real card with ad-hoc rules about how it worked. Would this raise from you the same reaction? Or would you would believe this hypothectical situation, since you admit that the Duel the Master event uses ad-hoc rules?
And yes, my belief is fruitless. They'll never release card - the event was for fun, as Maruno said.
(Well, they'll never release *that* card. If they do release it, which is ludicrous, then it will be heavily, heavily neutered.)
It's beyond reasonable doubt. Something which apparently does not apply to this situation.
I believe it, and I prefer Konami being in charge. Now I can complain directly to them, instead of complaining to UDE to complain to Konami.
And yes, my belief is fruitless. They'll never release card - the event was for fun, as Maruno said.
(Well, they'll never release *that* card. If they do release it, which is ludicrous, then it will be heavily, heavily neutered.)
...with a heavily, heavily neutered effect. That is nothing like the anime version. If they ever go insane and release "The Seal of Orichalcos", then it will be nothing like the "Duel the Master" version.
"Original Card" means proxy. Those are fakes.
DarkLogicianOfCaos
Eschew Obfuscation
Fake--As are any cards from Hong Kong, China, Korea, etc. where copyright infringement is not policed well (if at all), which is why no cards are legal from there.
Wait till I tell bishop we got called UDE elitists.
Sakura Sakamoto
Active Member
it's true we are the elitists of UDE The United Dueling Enterprise.
i can't believe that card on ebay is fake i so wanted it to be real:crying: life is cruel.
i can't believe that card on ebay is fake i so wanted it to be real:crying: life is cruel.
The original ebay link is gone, but two others showed up:
Look at the little Yugioh hologram in the corner -- it isn't there...
Look at the card set number -- OR-VIP01 (in Japanese (?) ) and OR-EN01 (in English) -- neither of these are real card set numbers. (Or whatever they're officially called -- LOB = Legend of Blue-Eyes White Dragon booster pack, etc.)
(I'll pimp-out Digital Jedi's software here, because I check these numbers through Deck Studio and Rodin regularly.)
Look at the little Yugioh hologram in the corner -- it isn't there...
Look at the card set number -- OR-VIP01 (in Japanese (?) ) and OR-EN01 (in English) -- neither of these are real card set numbers. (Or whatever they're officially called -- LOB = Legend of Blue-Eyes White Dragon booster pack, etc.)
(I'll pimp-out Digital Jedi's software here, because I check these numbers through Deck Studio and Rodin regularly.
)- Status