The "What If" Scenario for the game...

T

Tkwiget

Da Twiggy Man!
This is more of a discussion on how the game would be if cards were taken in a more literal sence in what they do. This would more or less change the way we view the game and eliminate as well as create different rulings than what we have right now.

A literal approach to this would be taking every card effect and taking them to a literal sense. Naturally some mechanics such as Continuous Monster effects couldn't butt in the middle of a card resolving. Such as Ceasefire flipping up Jinzo.

But let's discuss the nature of the game by taking all the card effects by their literal meaning.

For example, look at Royal Decree. It states it will negate the effects of Trap Cards on the field. Now cards like Return from the Different Dimension have lingering effects that are on the field. Would this literal meaning of Royal Decree still not negate Return from the Different Dimension?

How about this situation too. You have Magician of Faith on the field and you activate Magical Dimension to Special Summon your Dark Magician of Chaos from your hand. In the literal sense of this situation, Dark Magician of Chaos wouldn't miss his timing, or would he? =)

Would a more literal approach to the card effects be more effective than deriving from possible multiple card text and rulings just to get a clear and decisive answer be more effective?

Also what about the literal meaning of Desert Sunlight? It says nothing about Flip Effects, yet we have a ruling that says they work. Would a process of making card text worded in the fashion the card is suppose to work on a literal stand point be easier for the game to progress in a less problematic approach?

=P Just some stuff I was theorizing over last night when I couldn't get to sleep. Funny how this kind of stuff pops into my head right before I go to bed.

XD
 
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First off, I'd like to clear you up on Royal Decree's text. It says the effect of Trap Cards. Not the Trap Card itself.

Royal Decree doesn't negate the "remove monsters from play that were special summoned by this effect" part of Return from the Different Dimension. I hope that clears that up.

The point I was getting at with Desert Sunlight is that card text that isn't clear on what it does shouldn't exist in this "What If" scenario. However, your point is valid and I loved it. =P It proved exactly what I was getting at too.
 
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If we're supposed to be taking a 'literal' approach to the card text, then if the card is no longer on the field how can "Royal Decree" negate it? It will only negate the effects of those Trap Cards on the field. If they are removed from the field before their effects resolve, then how can it stop them? They aren't on the field anymore..lol.

Just my thought process....literally.
 
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Literally, I literally think that literally there is no literal difference between literal NOMIs and literal chaos RFP's, or at least that's literally how I literally see the literal text.

Dude.
 
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Jason_C said:
Literally, I literally think that literally there is no literal difference between literal NOMIs and literal chaos RFP's, or at least that's literally how I literally see the literal text.

Dude.
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^^^^^^^ This just confused me. I refuse to read that again because I just got owned from reading it. XDXD


The literal meaning of Royal Decree is that it negates the effects of Trap Cards on the field. The actual physical card doesn't have to be on the field. That's the literal meaning of how the card works. The point I'm made was that Return from the Different Dimension has an effect on the field which is connected to monsters. This effect is a lingering effect. Without definate clarification of what Konami considers the grounds of how lingering effects work, I can only say they "resolve" and not make it an Effect Activation; like with Wave-Motion Cannon.
 
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And you are reading into what the card "may mean" and not the literal meaning.

The literal meaning is, "Any Trap Card that exist on the field when Royal Decree is activated will have its effect negated."

So therefore, "Any Trap Card that IS NOT on the field when Royal Decree is activated will not have its effect negated."
 
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*pokes signature*

What I mean is that, interpreted literally, there is no difference whatsoever in the summoning conditions of a NOMI monster and something like Dark Necrofear. "...cannot be ... except by..." and "...can only be ... by..." mean exactly the same thing, literally.
 
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Yes, they could very well be defined to function the same exact way. But like what I orginally said, this is just a lot of theory and nothing more. We shouldn't take any of it seriously. It might affect us. XD

MasterwooO, that isn't how I see it. Effects and physical card are two completely different things. Most trap cards will activate while on the field. But those Trap Cards with lingering effects such as Return from the Different Dimension have effects on the field. Royal Decree's text works from a literal stand point like it does normally in the game. Effects on the field are negated. My side was when a trap card with a lingering effect that's connected to the field has had its Card Activation long sense resolved. =/

Lets not nit pick about it and move onto something else. I don't want to waste our time bickering of what the literal meaning of a single card is. This is theory and nothing more. =P Lets have a little fun!

Lets move to the next topic. Negation.

Negation was another thing that Konami never fully defined for us. If they did, I completely missed it. From my understanding the term "negation" in the YGO world means "to cancel the current action of a card and be aware of the registered attempt". This plays very well with Normal Summonings. However, let's look at it from another angel.

Does the term "negation" actually mean what I said? Does it mean to completely undo an action and register the attempt to never have existed in the first place? Is this not the literal meaning of the term's defination? Let's say my defination is completely wrong and that my literal defination is.

Cold Wave. A very old card, yes? It says it has to be the first card you have to activate in the Main Phase 1 in order to activate it. You can't activate it in any other Game Phase. So if by going by a literal approach to the term "negation". If my opponent activates Magic Jammer, discard Jinzo and negates my Cold Wave. I could activate a second one.

Would that be correct at all?

Don't be afraid to come up with other strange aspects. This is all the name of discussion and having some fun. =P
 
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Tkwiget said:
^^^^^^^ This just confused me. I refuse to read that again because I just got owned from reading it. XDXD


The literal meaning of Royal Decree is that it negates the effects of Trap Cards on the field. The actual physical card doesn't have to be on the field. That's the literal meaning of how the card works. The point I'm made was that Return from the Different Dimension has an effect on the field which is connected to monsters. This effect is a lingering effect. Without definate clarification of what Konami considers the grounds of how lingering effects work, I can only say they "resolve" and not make it an Effect Activation; like with Wave-Motion Cannon.
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Maybe it's just my "amatuer" opinion but I think that if Royal Decree is already face-up on the field or is activated in a chain response to Rfdd, then the effect of Royal Decree negates the activation and thus negating the "lingering" effect of Return. If the first effect of Return is negated, then how can the "lingering" effect activate even if the card is not on the field. My interpretation is that Royal Decree stops Return from even being flipped and activated or is my interpretation wrong?
 
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I'm sorry to say that Decree does not negate activation. It only negates the effect.

Now, the way I see it is that if RftDD resolves face up on the field, Decree can negate its lingering effect even after resolution. But if we add Emergency Provisions, that's no longer true.

Just how I would have it work.
 
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The scenario is, Royal Decree is activated AFTER Return from the Different Dimension has already resolved and been sent to the Graveyard.

The Trap Card is of course, no longer on the field, and the effect, or, "condition" is still lingering until End Phase of turn.

Since Royal Decree should not be able to negate the effect of a Trap Card that is no longer on the field, especially one that was resolved and sent to the Graveyard BEFORE Royal Decree was activated, the literal effect of Royal Decree is its "true" effect. If the Trap Card would activate and resolve on the field in a chain with Royal Decree, then the effect would be negated, but not the activation.

Literally written, Royal Decree's text is fine.
 
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I agree with masterwoo0, there is no real problem with Royal Decree, it explicit and not at all complicated:
While this card is face-up on the field, negate the effects of all Trap Cards on the field except this card.
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There is not much to say that this is not to be taken literally.
 
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You can chain Royal Decree to counter RftDD to make it not special summon any monsters from RFP pile and your foe still payed half their lifepoints.

You CANNOT use RftDD, and then chain your own Royal Decree to negate the side effect of RftDD. It just negates the effect of trap cards that's "ON THE FIELD" and also forces no activation of traps cards.

For RftDD side-effect to not occur, you need trap card immunity. Like say if you used RftDD to special summon Elemental Hero Wildheart, then Wildheart is first special summoned by RftDD, but then it's on the field so it's immune to RftDD side effect so Wildheart stays on the field.
 
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slither said:
I agree with masterwoo0, there is no real problem with Royal Decree, it explicit and not at all complicated:


There is not much to say that this is not to be taken literally.
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Thank you! I was wondering when someone was going to point out the "on the field" part of the wording.

Most cards can be taken literally. It's just that sometimes, the literal can get a little confusing if you don't know all the game mechanics involved. There are only a few cards that have rulings that don't seem to match what the card is saying. For those cards, we only have "because Konami said so" to fall back on.
 
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I think the issue is that a literal reading of "Negate the Effects of all Trap cards on the field" can be taken two ways symantically.

1) Negate the effects of all TRAP cards that are on the field while this card is on the field. or you could actually read it...

2) Negate the EFFECTS that are on the field while this card is on the field, that come from Trap cards.

Hey, this is fun!
 
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DarkLogicianOfCaos said:
I think the issue is that a literal reading of "Negate the Effects of all Trap cards on the field" can be taken two ways symantically.

1) Negate the effects of all TRAP cards that are on the field while this card is on the field. or you could actually read it...

2) Negate the EFFECTS that are on the field while this card is on the field, that come from Trap cards.

Hey, this is fun!
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If you take number 1, it would mean that if you activate a trap while Decree is on the field and you chain to the activation with Mystical Space Typhoon or something, the trap would still continue because it isn't on the field anymore when it resolves.
 
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