Vampire Lord / Solemn Judgment / Royal Oppression

J

John Danker

Administrator
I'm obviously not seeing something or confused here. Perhaps I'm thinking too much?

Let me see if I can splain

From what the rulings state with Royal Oppression, Solemn Judgment and Horn of Heaven work just like Royal Oppression (they can negate the same type of summons at the same point)

When I look at the rulings for Vampire Lord (and Sacred Phoenix) it appears that Royal Oppression can negate the special summon of those two monster when special summoned by their own effect.....yet the rulings for those two monsters state that when summoned by their own effect Solemn Judgment and Horn of Heavan cannot be used to negate the summon.

So where am I missing it?

(rulings text below)

From the rulings on Vampire Lord

If you Summon "Vampire Lord" (except by its effect) and he is destroyed by your opponent's "Horn of Heaven" or "Solemn Judgment", "Vampire Lord" will be Special Summoned in your next Standby Phase. When it is Special Summoned by its own effect "Horn of Heaven" or "Solemn Judgment" cannot be activated, because it is being Summoned by its own Trigger Effect, not by a built-in "this is how you Summon this monster" effect.

From the rulings on Royal Oppression

There are basically 2 ways to Special Summon a monster. The first way is with a Spell Card like "Monster Reborn", a Trap Card like "Call of the Haunted", or an Effect Monster like "Magical Scientist". The second way is built in to the monster, and Special Summons it without activating an effect, such as "Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning" or "Dark Necrofear". "Royal Oppression" can negate both of these types of Special Summon. In the first case, you chain the activation of "Royal Oppression"'s effect to the activation of the Spell, Trap, or Monster Card's effect, and negate the effect. In the second case, right before the monster is Special Summoned, you can activate the effect of "Royal Oppression" to negate the Special Summon (the same procedure that you use for "Horn of Heaven" or "Solemn Judgment").

When "Vampire Lord" is Special Summoned by its effect, you can activate the effect of "Royal Oppression" to negate the Special Summon and destroy "Vampire Lord". If your "Vampire Lord" is destroyed in this way by the effect of a "Royal Oppression" card controlled by your opponent, then "Vampire Lord" was destroyed by a card controlled by your opponent, and is Special Summoned during your next Standby

*EDIT*

Now that I look at the effect text of Royal Oppression more closely it clears things up (perhaps>

Pay 800 Life Points. Negate the Special Summon of a monster(s), and the effect that Special Summoned the monster(s), and destroy both. Both you and your opponent can use this effect.

Royal Oppression can negate the EFFECT that special summons the monster....not just the special summon, Solemn Judgment and Horn Of Heaven just negate the summon. It appears I've talked myself through this one <laffin>
 
Sort by date Sort by votes
I don't think you're missing something, just the ruling isn't quite right. Take one of the other examples for Royal Oppression:

"¢ Example 1: If "Marauding Captain" is Normal Summoned, its effect activates. You can chain to this effect by activating the effect of "Royal Oppression". The effect of "Marauding Captain" is negated, no monster is Special Summoned, and the "Marauding Captain" is destroyed. (The monster your opponent intended to Special Summon with the effect of "Marauding Captain" remains in his hand.)

Basically Royal Oppression is acting a bit like "Divine Wrath" in that regards. Further, look at the card text:

Royal Oppression
Continuous Trap

Pay 800 Life Points. Negate the Special Summon of a monster(s), and the effect that Special Summoned the monster(s), and destroy both. Both you and your opponent can use this effect.

The bolded part is why you can use Royal Oppression in a chain against Monster Reborn or Call of the Haunted (the ruling that you brought out in your post).

Now, the ruling also says you can chain it against the Activation of the Effect of a Monster that would summon it (case in point, the example with Marauding Captain).

In this case then, Royal Oppression would be chained against the activation of Vampire Lord or Sacred Phoenix when those effects activate in the graveyard. Since a monster cannot be re-destroyed while it is in the graveyard, the effects are merely negated and they never hit the field (as if you Divine Wrath-ed them). So their example with Vampire Lord would be incorrect.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Thanks for your reply....yeah, as in my edit at the end of my post I pretty well figured that out, it took me a while though, sometimes I can't see the forest through the trees!

The odd thing though still is part of what you mentioned in your post densetsu_x, see the Unsolved Mysteries thread (stickied) about Vampire Lord and Royal Oppression.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Originally they had a similar ruling for Sacred Phoenix of Nephtys, but they later changed it because cards in the graveyard cannot be destroyed:

http://lists.upperdeck.com/read/messages?id=4311

Old ruling:

Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys
"You can activate "Divine Wrath" when "Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys" is Special Summoned by its own effect. If you do this, since its effect was negated by "Divine Wrath", "Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys" does not Special Summon itself by its effect again during your next Standby Phase, even though it was destroyed by a card effect (the effect of "Divine Wrath")."


New Ruling:
You can activate "Divine Wrath" when "Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys" is Special Summoned by its own effect. Because this effect activates in the Graveyard, and is being negated while Sacred Phoenix of Nepthys" is in the Graveyard, "Sacred Phoenix of Nepthys" is never Special Summoned (so the card is never moved from the Graveyard) and is never destroyed. Because it is not destroyed, its effect to Special Summon itself does not activate again.


So it looks like the Royal Oppression ruling was forgotten about when they corrected the information.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I mentioned this to Kevin (that it looks as though Royal Oppression was forgotten about) at GenCon So. Cal. this year. He said he'd look into it.

The only difference I can see between Divine Wrath and Royal Oppression as it applies to Vampire Lord and Sacred Phoinex is that Divine Wrath says....Negate the activation and the effect of an Effect Monster and destroy it. Where as Royal Oppression says "Negate....the effect that Special Summoned the monster(s)"

Do you see that as meaning different things?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Subtle difference but functionally the same since you're supposed to chain it off the effect (that link in the chain).

The difference would be more relevant say if you had a card that says "whenever an effect in activated, increase your life points by 500" (a Monster version of Spell Absorption where say you had SA on the field and you play Level Limit - Area B. If your opponent chains Magic Jammer, the activation is negated so you get nothing. But if Dust Tornado was chained or Imperial Order was chained, the activation was still valid so you gain the life points even if the effect won't go through).
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
John, this is just my take on it and I do believe the rulings are clear on this. We just have to read carefully.

There are basically 2 ways to Special Summon a monster. The first way is with a Spell Card like "Monster Reborn", a Trap Card like "Call of the Haunted", or an Effect Monster like "Magical Scientist". The second way is built in to the monster, and Special Summons it without activating an effect, such as "Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning" or "Dark Necrofear". "Royal Oppression" can negate both of these types of Special Summon. In the first case, you chain the activation of "Royal Oppression"'s effect to the activation of the Spell, Trap, or Monster Card's effect, and negate the effect. In the second case, right before the monster is Special Summoned, you can activate the effect of "Royal Oppression" to negate the Special Summon (the same procedure that you use for "Horn of Heaven" or "Solemn Judgment").

Royal Oppression, Horn of Heaven, and Solemn Judgment we all agree can use to negate Special Summonings of the category of Dark Necrofear, Chaos Sorcerer, Cyber Dragon, etc.

The other Special Summoning method that Horn of Heaven and Solemn Judgment can't touch are through effect (or card) activations. Such as Vampire Lord, Sacred Phoenix, Mystic Tomato, Giant Rat, etc. This is because Solemn Judgment and Horn of Heaven have to be activated directly in response to the declaration of the Special Summoning. I'll assume everyone is on the same page so far.

Royal Oppression has a range extention on what it can negate for Special Summonings. It can negate effect (or card) activations as well as Special Summon declarations.

The part you bolded in that ruling when you posted it John means that it's the same procedure that you use with Horn of Heaven and Solemn Judgment when they declare the Special Summoning.

So if Vampire Lord or Sacred Phoenix have their Special Summoning effect negated by Royal Oppression, they shouldn't activate again during your next turn since they never were destroyed on the field.

So that Royal Oppression ruling explains quite a bit.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Tkwiget said:
So if Vampire Lord or Sacred Phoenix have their Special Summoning effect negated by Royal Oppression, they shouldn't activate again during your next turn since they never were destroyed on the field.
Click to expand...


I agree with this statement, however, the rulings for Royal Oppression state otherwise....that was why I questioned it and it's a sticky in the unsolved mysteries area.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top