What should Be Next on the Banned and Limted list???

[Tiso]

Obviously, if many people are still complaining about cards that should be taken out of the ban list, then obviously they may not that good of a duelist. Cards are banned because, they have relatively no drawbacks, cost, or little consequence associated with them. First and foremost, theme decks consisting of monster types were long before the Structure Decks.

For the most the new Structure Decks should only be played, as decks. It is better to have a format in which they allow beginning players, to play the structures. As for the ban list, Breaker does not need to be banned, its not even that great. People are forgetting about the counters that can easily be used against it, such as Solemn Judgment, and trap Exhausting Spell. Tribe had to be banned to allow monster type decks, to be existence, and it had a cheap, easily affordable cost to destroy monster types.

Limiter Removal should be unrestricted. Cyber Dragon does not need to be restricted. In addition to that, you will need 3 Cyber's for the Fusion, even with the substiitute in SOI. What players need to do is to learn how to play their cards more wisely and effectively, so that the one turn kill with Cyber End Dragon, does not happen. After a while it losing does become your fault. The fact that a player, can draw two random cards, without a consequences is broken enough as is.

D.D. cards are overrated as is. And if players were using their brains, then they would have known that the removal ability can also serve as a disadvantage to the owning player.

Mirror Force should be unbanned. Dark Hole and Heavy Storm should be banned. Snatch Steal should be banned, because it can really easily be played as another Change of Heart, since the card can be tributed, Falling Down has the same problem. Ring of Destruction is a matter of timing when played, and should be unbanned as well. Remember both players lose life, it may not always happen with the Barrel Combo, depending on if they draw the card. As long as a card has no consequences or little drawbacks, then it should be banned.

With Graceful Charity, if a player takes out two cards from their starting hand of six cards, and draws two more cards with Pot of Greed, it allows a player to get five cards from their deck, that greatly thins out the player's deck, just like Mirage did with no consequence and increases their chances for victory too easily. Remember, that there is about 2.5% chance for each card in a 40 card deck. Now imagine you going first, and doing the same Pot and Graceful Combo with the starting hand.

In the starting hand you have six cards, and yours odds of victory are 15%. After playing the Pot and Graceful Combo, by getting exactly five cards from your deck you get a 27.5% drawing your need, and obtaining victory. After playing a D.D. Capsule, probability of victory increases by 30%, at that point you deck is thinned out by almost a third, now imagine that with Mirage of Nightmare.

Hopefully, this will help people appreciated, the great depths of strategy in the TCG, as well as the difficulty of attempting powerful one-turn kills with Power Bond are harder than people think.

There are plenty of cards to thwart the main threats with many Top-Tier decks. (Clue: Many of these cards are commons, if you just look hard enough, instead of complaining about losing). It is unfair to say a card should be banned, just because so many people are playing that card. If you want to know some alternatives, to many of the dangerous cards, I'll be more than glad to lend my advice.

I have to disagree with the majority of that post. Breaker the Magical does need to be banned. He is slapped silly into every Deck imaginable. You speak about counters, but have you forgotten no one uses crap like Exhaust Spell. That would be like me slapping De-Fusion in my Deck just because of the off-chance I run into someone using Fusions. The majority does not use counters to begin with like that. Solemn Judgment would be the widely used one for its negate all nature, but even most would not want to give up half of their Life Points in order to use it. The ban list is not just dictated by:

Obviously, if many people are still complaining about cards that should be taken out of the ban list, then obviously they may not that good of a duelist. Cards are banned because, they have relatively no drawbacks, cost, or little consequence associated with them. First and foremost, theme decks consisting of monster types were long before the Structure Decks.

If you look at the ban list you would know that. Where does Butterfly Dagger - Elma fall into that? It does not. Sure it may have been a great 300 ATK Equip Card that always came back to your hand, but it was not the card itself that needed banning but the fact it comboed with some deadly results, like OTK stuff. There are cards to counter any Deck, but is anyone using them? No. You are going under the assumption every Duel you have will always have a complete Deck to counter it, which is just silly. People build their Decks as best as they can to counter as much as they can without being exessive in it. To say we already had cards to combat say Dark World or Gravekeepers and so on it just a moot point. No duh, but most know or do not know or just plain do not care. Why would we want to use a subpar card to counter something we may or may not go against on a daily basis when we could use the better all around stuff?

Limiter Removal had to be restricted. If you cannot grasp that you must really have no idea what the meta-game would have been like, giving Cybernetic Revolution gave us a boost in Machine-Type. Limiter Removal is by far one of the CHEAPEST ways to win a duel. How cool is it to get 2-3 weak little machines out, like the VtoZ parts and just use 3 Limiter Removals in the Damage Step? Limiter Removal being at 1 was a hit to Machine-Type Decks, but they have enough to counter it and move on.

 

[Complex_Mind]

To the person who said "Exhausting Spell to stop Breaker the Magical Warrior" let me explain to you how Breaker the Magical Warrior works.


You normal summon him, he gets his counter. He removes his counter to destroy one spell/trap on the field. That's a PLUS 1. Then he most likely attack, if you Sakuretsu Armor him or he destroys your face-down monster. He got a PLUS 2.

Exhausting Spell will do the same exact thing. You still get a MINUS 1. When you activate Exhausting Spell, they just don't get to choose what spell/trap to destroy. But it doesn't matter. It's all about advantage. If your opponent gets a PLUS 2 on you and it's your fault it happened. Be ashamed.

 

[cameron2010]

I have to disagree with the majority of that post. Breaker the Magical does need to be banned. He is slapped silly into every Deck imaginable. You speak about counters, but have you forgotten no one uses crap like Exhaust Spell. That would be like me slapping De-Fusion in my Deck just because of the off-chance I run into someone using Fusions. The majority does not use counters to begin with like that. Solemn Judgment would be the widely used one for its negate all nature, but even most would not want to give up half of their Life Points in order to use it. The ban list is not just dictated by:



If you look at the ban list you would know that. Where does Butterfly Dagger - Elma fall into that? It does not. Sure it may have been a great 300 ATK Equip Card that always came back to your hand, but it was not the card itself that needed banning but the fact it comboed with some deadly results, like OTK stuff. There are cards to counter any Deck, but is anyone using them? No. You are going under the assumption every Duel you have will always have a complete Deck to counter it, which is just silly. People build their Decks as best as they can to counter as much as they can without being exessive in it. To say we already had cards to combat say Dark World or Gravekeepers and so on it just a moot point. No duh, but most know or do not know or just plain do not care. Why would we want to use a subpar card to counter something we may or may not go against on a daily basis when we could use the better all around stuff?

Limiter Removal had to be restricted. If you cannot grasp that you must really have no idea what the meta-game would have been like, giving Cybernetic Revolution gave us a boost in Machine-Type. Limiter Removal is by far one of the CHEAPEST ways to win a duel. How cool is it to get 2-3 weak little machines out, like the VtoZ parts and just use 3 Limiter Removals in the Damage Step? Limiter Removal being at 1 was a hit to Machine-Type Decks, but they have enough to counter it and move on.

First and foremost, I am well aware of the ban list and cards in the meta. Secondly, your argument about cards being crap is false, all cards in any TCG whether Yugioh or MTG all go back to strategy and how you play the cards. Every card is special, whether or not it is played or not. Even Smoke Grenade of the Thief combined with Gearfried the Iron Knight can be played just like Confiscation, but the only difference is that you don't have to pay 1,000 life points.

There are many others who also agree that Breaker should not be banned, and that Limiter should be unlimited or at least semi-restricted. If you are Yugioh player, you are investing money into the cards, so don't you owe to yourself to look for other cards that can help go against different situations? Don't you owe it to yourself, to look at other alternative methods, so that your deck can gain some originality? If American duelists keep banning cards because, they think they can't win against it, then more and more other cards will be looked at as other cards to obtain victory as well.

Think about it, months ago no hardly looked at Widespread Ruin, and Two-Pronged Attack. Now these cards are in greater demand due to banning Ring of Destruction, and many others. No deck will ever be able to counter all situations, but a deck that is well balanced with different types of cards may be used in different times depending on if you draw the card or how it is designed.

This type of narrow thinking(maybe cookie cutter), is why an American may never win the World Championship. Instead they will blame Kevin Tewart, because they have not expanded their skill. One of the deadliest I went against was all counter deck with lots of Spell Speed 3's. As for myself, I don't use Breaker the Magical Warrior. No card is ever inferior, only the duelist!

 

[slither]

If you think about it, Breaker can even get away with 3 cards, if timed just right:

1 - Counter
2 - He might destroy a monster in battle (1600 is still a respectfull atk)
3 - Another card to get rid of him

 

[Digital Jedi]

I'm going to ask this nicely. Can we please speak to each other in a more respectiful tone. Disagrements are fine. But let's not let the argument get heated. I'm more then willing to delete posts or just lock this thread altogether. I know we are capable of being civil with each other. So I'm going to assume that we CAN keep this thread from degrading into a insult match, which is where it's teetering at the moment.

 

[Complex_Mind]

If you think about it, Breaker can even get away with 3 cards, if timed just right:

1 - Counter
2 - He might destroy a monster in battle (1600 is still a respectfull atk)
3 - Another card to get rid of him

my ideal Breaker the Magical Warrior (that I get to pull off all the time) is this:

Summon Breaker the Magical Warrior.
Breaker the Magical Warrior gets it's counter.
Remove the counter to destroy face-down spell/trap. Usually Sakuretsu Armor or Dust Tornado.
Attack Face-Down monster. Amazingly, I've been able to get away with hitting a Don Zaloog so much.
Their turn begins.
They Smashing Ground Breaker the Magical Warrior.

1 for 3.

And even more depending on how long Breaker the Magical Warrior survives.

 

[Tiso]

First and foremost, I am well aware of the ban list and cards in the meta. Secondly, your argument about cards being crap is false, all cards in any TCG whether Yugioh or MTG all go back to strategy and how you play the cards. Every card is special, whether or not it is played or not. Even Smoke Grenade of the Thief combined with Gearfried the Iron Knight can be played just like Confiscation, but the only difference is that you don't have to pay 1,000 life points.

There are many others who also agree that Breaker should not be banned, and that Limiter should be unlimited or at least semi-restricted. If you are Yugioh player, you are investing money into the cards, so don't you owe to yourself to look for other cards that can help go against different situations? Don't you owe it to yourself, to look at other alternative methods, so that your deck can gain some originality? If American duelists keep banning cards because, they think they can't win against it, then more and more other cards will be looked at as other cards to obtain victory as well.

Think about it, months ago no hardly looked at Widespread Ruin, and Two-Pronged Attack. Now these cards are in greater demand due to banning Ring of Destruction, and many others. No deck will ever be able to counter all situations, but a deck that is well balanced with different types of cards may be used in different times depending on if you draw the card or how it is designed.

This type of narrow thinking(maybe cookie cutter), is why an American may never win the World Championship. Instead they will blame Kevin Tewart, because they have not expanded their skill. One of the deadliest I went against was all counter deck with lots of Spell Speed 3's. As for myself, I don't use Breaker the Magical Warrior. No card is ever inferior, only the duelist!

First, I do not know what game YOU are playing, but to say every TCG has a good card, all cards have a strategy and is good is just plain laughable. You are wrong, plain and simple and not an opinon, FACT. Unlike say Duel Masters, which has probably 85-90% of their card database good, Yu-Gi-Oh! on the other hand has about 85-90% of their card cool as CRAP, GARBAGE, NEVER USE. There is no amount of strategy that can possibly make: Succubus Knight, Gift of the Maytr, Acid Trap Hole, and countless other cards good. You are going to tell me all those old school garbage high level tribute monsters with subpar stats are good? Wake up.

The only reason Widespread Ruin is even being played is because of the no target part of it. A lot of cards are being built in, for example Cyber Phoenix, that stop effects from being targeted to the monster. How is a Cyber Phoenix going to protect a Power Bonded Cyber End Dragon from a Widespread Ruin? That is the only reason it is played along with Sakuretsu Armor or sometimes replacing it. That and no Mirror Force. Two-Pronged Attack should be simple. Elemental Hero Wildheart. Simple. Konami makes a card which inadvertly makes another card finally playable. How long was it till Skull Servant got at least playable? No you are just wrong. Yu-Gi-Oh! is just one of those games where the makers promise big but never deliver and cards that seemed cool will never get playability due to the meta-game, like Exhaust Spell for one.

[Edit] Oh and lastly and most importantly, you clearly have no say whatsoever at this point to even comment about the meta-game, let alone what cards are good and not when you make such a statement as why we Americans can never win a worlds due to CC type stuff. Let me enlighten you. The way the ban list is made determines the type of Decks will rise and shine. Want to know where we even get to see which Decks are good? Japan. They playtest stuff first, we copy from them, the cycle continues.

 

[Jathro]

Tiso, let's keep in mind that this is a thread for opinions. You surely are entitled to your own, but there's no need to bash someone else's. You can make a point without attacking someone else.

 

[Digital Jedi]

[Edit] Oh and lastly and most importantly, you clearly have no say whatsoever at this point to even comment about the meta-game, let alone what cards are good and not when you make such a statement as why we Americans can never win a worlds due to CC type stuff. Let me enlighten you.

No, let me enlighten you. Everyone here has the right to comment on the meta game or whatever subject we are discussing. I very politely aksed everyone here to settle down and not let this discussion degrade. Now you are diliberatly ignoring me. Every member on this site has worked extremely hard to make this forum stand out among all others as a place for intelligent, open and POLITE discussion. These kinds of comments are not condusive to the enviornment we have worked so hard to create over the last year. Disrespect of members who are being extrodinarily polite to you, is not only immature, but undermines the efforts of so many. That is not something we here at CoG will take lightly.

 

[Tiso]

No, let me enlighten you. Everyone here has the right to comment on the meta game or whatever subject we are discussing. I very politely aksed everyone here to settle down and not let this discussion degrade. Now you are diliberatly ignoring me. Every member on this site has worked extremely hard to make this forum stand out among all others as a place for intelligent, open and POLITE discussion. These kinds of comments are not condusive to the enviornment we have worked so hard to create over the last year. Disrespect of members who are being extrodinarily polite to you, is not only immature, but undermines the efforts of so many. That is not something we here at CoG will take lightly.

This type of narrow thinking(maybe cookie cutter), is why an American may never win the World Championship. Instead they will blame Kevin Tewart, because they have not expanded their skill. One of the deadliest I went against was all counter deck with lots of Spell Speed 3's. As for myself, I don't use Breaker the Magical Warrior. No card is ever inferior, only the duelist![/OUOTE]

Jedi, instead of always coming at me for whatever personal reasons you have against me, how about you actually go after the people who caused it. Now in what way was his comment not a disrespectful comment? Most of the people are Americans. Then to say our skill has not been "expanded" is him calling every American duelist a LOSER! I am all for opinions, of course I also want the opinions to not sound like they are coming out of their blow hole or their air vent. At least I can back up my arguments with facts, examples, and so on. He just goes around mouthing off with wild theories and what not acts like it is fact. He can talk about the meta-game all he wants, but when he talks about it without actually knowing about it then someone should set them straight. It would be like you telling me how great Seasme Street is and yet you never watched one episode a day in your life. Just because you got a vague idea of something does not mean you can just cheat sheet yourself into a valid discussion on it. Him saying every card has a purpose and it is the duelist who is inferior is flat out wrong. Any sane person, including you knows that. Maybe that would float in Duel Masters, but this is Yu-Gi-Oh! and every card is not superior, in fact the majority are inferior wastes of paper. The only ones that really shine are a small percentage that either stand on there on as good, will eventually become good due to other cards, or not so unplayable.

If he feels that way I like to see him make a competitve Deck using the no name cards, like Basic Insect, Succubus Knight, Anatsu, White Hole, and so on.

 

[Digital Jedi]

So if one person says something out of the way to you, your natural reaction is to feed the flame by adding on even more fuel to the fire? The best way to avoid heated arguments on this forum is to not participate in them to begin with. And comments like "I also want the opinions to not sound like they are coming out of their blow hole or their air vent" are most definitly not the way to do that. Nor are they very mature. This is a discussion board. The focus here is to have fun and learn from each other. You are accomplshing neither.

There is nothing personal about this situation. You obviously don't know me very well. It saddens me to see a member disrespect this forum and potentially jeapordise his memberhsip here. If anything I have been an advocate of tolerance among the other moderators in this forum. But you have repreatedly stated every single one of your opinions as a fact and demeaned those who disagree with you.

"Him saying every card has a purpose and it is the duelist who is inferior is flat out wrong."

Even I know that? I don't agree with you. And not once have I attempted to belittle your opinion. Your manner of expressing your opinion is overly aggressive and against the policies of this forum. This kind of behavior is flaming, plain and simple. And I'm not the only moderator who feels that way.

As far as supposedly inferior cards are conscerned, I guess I've been playing this game a lot longer then you have. Because I've seen cards that were seemingly useless made into strategic brilliance by more then a few duelists in my time. Many of these combos that are old hat to everyone in this game didn't exist until an inventive duelist who thought outside the box put these "useless" cards to good use. This is an axiom of Yu-Gi-Oh! that continues to prove true to this day. Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it isn't there.

It would be like you telling me how great Seasme Street is and yet you never watched one episode a day in your life. Just because you got a vague idea of something does not mean you can just cheat sheet yourself into a valid discussion on it.

And I guess that means that you have tried every card in Yu-Gi-Oh! and from personal experience proven that not every card has strategic value. You see? Every point has a counter point. Your own logic counters your own argument. And I disagree with you without saying things like you talk out your blow hole.

The rest of you should learn from this, also. There is no need to bite back at a comment just because it rubs you the wrong way. This is exactly how flaming and arguments get started and only leads to the eventual lock of that thread. We've been watching the forums lately and some of you have fallen into this pattern. We DO NOT encourage this. This is not what our forum is about. Many of you have worked very hard to make this forum the great place it is. It is by far THE most superior forum on the web and you could not convince me otherwise. I love it here and always will. As long as the behavior we are known for stands true. If we continue encouraging, participating or provoking negative behavior, then this forum will become just another place for people to play ¿quien es mas macho?. I don't think I'm the only one who will fight to keep that from happening. Food for thought.