2 questions

Lithium

New Member
Hi, I have 2 questions about Blast with Chain:
-Can you activate it during the damage step?
-I have a face-up Spirit Reaper on my side of the field and Blast with Chain face down. My opp. summons mobius and chooses my face down BWC. Can I chain with BWC on the reaper to destroy mobius or would reaper be destroyed? thanks:icon_conf .
 
If you haven't seen it yet, we have a very nice Battle Phase chart that explains things VERY well.

You can find it here:
http://www.cogonline.net/threads.6503

Enjoy!

[edit]BTW....welcome Slither! Please visit our Intro/Farewell area and introduce yourself to the community, if you haven't done so already! I'm sure you'll find this to be the best Yugioh! forums on the net!
 
John Danker said:
Now lets look at the other scenario

Mobius targets FD Blast with Chain
Blast with Chain is chained and targets Spirit Reaper

Resolve:

Blast with Chain resolves and targets Spirit Reaper.

Spirit Reaper's effect activates and INSERTS itself into the middle of the chain destroying Spirit Reaper. (See Berserk Gorilla ruling bottom of page)

Blast with Chain is no longer has a target and is sent to the graveyard by game mechanic

Mobius's effect tries to resolve but no longer has the taget of Blast with Chain to destroy.

If "Final Attack Orders" and "Berserk Gorilla" are both on the field, and the opponent targets "Berserk Gorilla" with "Ring of Destruction", and you chain "Zero Gravity", "Berserk Gorilla" is destroyed in the middle of the chain due to "Zero Gravity"'s effect, and "Ring of Destruction"'s effect Disappears.




but i always thought that additional effects that are included in the chain comes after the resolution?

meaning, that mobius destroys the equipped BwC w/o it being destroyed by reaper?

cuz i was told that if gearfried atks a Shining Angel and during dmg step, u uise bwc, what happens is the angel gets killed, summons another monster and bwc loses its target, the destroying effect comes after...........(unless thats because its dmg step?)

and didnt someone mention something with tsuykyomi?
if tsuk is f/d and opp targets noblemen of crossout on tsuk, and player B chains Ceasefire, are oyu saying that cease occurs, and since that tsuk is the only monster on the field, his effect kicks in and goes back down f/d, and since target hasnt changed that noblemen would work?
 
As far as I know. When Spirit Reaper is TARGETTED by a card, it self-destructs. Meaning the equip card cannot exist equipped to him. So he self-destructs before being equipped but when he is targetted for equiption.

Spirit Reaper's text says "targetted"
NOT
"effected"

I'm not too sure where this thread is in this argument but yeah, just adding that. ;)
 
mikoal said:
but i always thought that additional effects that are included in the chain comes after the resolution?
This is true for triggered effects like "Sangan" or "Night Assailant" when it's discarded to the Graveyard. Continuous effects can and will be able to interrupt the chain resolution. It would also appear that 'some' triggered effects that involve Card Destruction will also be able to interrupt chain resolution as well. This would include effects like "Spirit Reaper"s self destruct and "Gearfried the Iron Knight"s Equip Destruct effects.
mikoal said:
meaning, that mobius destroys the equipped BwC w/o it being destroyed by reaper?
Unfortunately, that's not the case here. "Spirit Reaper" will destroy himself immediately upon resolution of the effect that targets it (except during the Damage Step). This can and will occur in the middle of a chain resolution. The explanation given by John is perfectly accurate for this scenario.
mikoal said:
cuz i was told that if gearfried atks a Shining Angel and during dmg step, u uise bwc, what happens is the angel gets killed, summons another monster and bwc loses its target, the destroying effect comes after...........(unless thats because its dmg step?)
Ok, I'm going to assume you mean you are equipping "Blast with Chain" to "Gearfried the Iron Knight" during the Damage Step on this one. Here's how it would break down, based of the other threads we've had discussing "Blast with Chain" and "Gearfried the Iron Knight".

P1 attacks P2s "Shining Angel" with "Gearfried the Iron Knight".
Neither P1, nor P2 respond with any effects, so we move into Damage Step.
During Damage Calculation (Sub Step 3) P1 activates "Blast with Chain" and equips it to "Gearfried the Iron Knight".
P2 does not respond.
"Blast with Chain" resolves and equips to "Gearfried the Iron Knight" and his effect immediately kicks in and destroys "Blast with Chain"; however, the destruction part of "Blast with Chain" cannot resolve at this point in the Damage Step (or so we think at this time). It must wait until the Resolve Effects (Sub Step 5) portion of the Damage Step.
So "Gearfried the Iron Knight" gets the boost, then loses the boost, but still destroys the "Shining Angel" cause he was bigger to begin with (go figure). Now, "Shining Angel"s effect won't kick in until the Send to Graveyard (Sub Step 6) portion of the Damage Step. So if you've been paying attention, we've got a bit of an issue here don't we..lol. Once we enter Sub Step 5, "Shining Angel" is no longer a valid target for destruction via "Blast with Chain"s effect because it has already been deemed destroyed by battle. If there are no other cards on the field except "Gearfried the Iron Knight" and "Shining Angel", guess who MUST be destroyed by the effect of "Blast with Chain"? That's right, you guessed it..."Gearfried the Iron Knight"! Why? Because the effect of "Blast with Chain" is mandatory, and since "Shining Angel"s effect won't kick in and summon another monster until Sub Step 6, we've got NO CHOICE..lol.

Did all of that make sense to everyone?
mikoal said:
and didnt someone mention something with tsuykyomi?
if tsuk is f/d and opp targets noblemen of crossout on tsuk, and player B chains Ceasefire, are oyu saying that cease occurs, and since that tsuk is the only monster on the field, his effect kicks in and goes back down f/d, and since target hasnt changed that noblemen would work?
"Tsukuyomi"s effect is a triggered effect that activates when it is flipped face-up. Therefore it MUST wait until the current chain resolves before it will be allowed to resolve. In your example, "Nobleman of Crossout" it used on the face-down "Tsukuyomi", the opponent chains with "Ceasefire". Since "Tsukuyomi" is not a Flip Effect monster, her effect WILL still activate from being flipped face-up, but will not be allowed to resolve until the current chain resolves. So, "Ceasefire" resolves and inflicts 500 points damage, then "Nobleman of Crossout" attempts to resolve, but since "Tsukuyomi" is no longer face-down, it's effect 'Disappears', or resolves without effect. The chain is done resolving, NOW "Tsukuyomi"s effect will kick in and since she is the only monster face-up on the field, she can target herself and she'll be flipped back face-down.

Hope this helps!
 
skey23 said:
It would, provided you weren't in the Damage Step.

Scenario:
I declare an attack with the "Spirit Reaper"
My opponent responds with "Sakuretsu Armor"
I chain with "Royal Decree"
They chain with "Magic Cylinders"
I don't respond, and the chain resolves.

"Magical Cylinders" resolves inflicting the 300 LP damage back to me.
"Spirit Reaper" is destroyed at this point BEFORE "Royal Decree" resolves. <----This is the mid chain point
"Royal Decree" resolves negating all Traps.
"Sakuretsu Armor" attempts to resolve but is being negated by "Royal Decree".
All remaining cards, except "Royal Decree", from the chain are sent to the Graveyard.

Now, if it had been during the Damage Step, then THIS is how it would play out...

Scenario:
I attack with my "Spirit Reaper" choosing to attack your face-up attack position "Morphing Jar" (300 ATK to 700 ATK).
My opponent has no response.
I have no response and we move into the Damage Step.
During Damage Calculation, I choose to activate "Rush Recklessly" targeting my "Spirit Reaper".
They don't respond.
"Rush Recklessly" resolves increasing my "Spirit Reaper"s ATK to 1000, but he won't 'self destruct' until Sub Step 5 of the Damage Step.
So "Spirit Reaper" destroys your "Morphing Jar" and inflicts 300 points damage and his effect activates.
They discard 1 random card from their hand.
Then "Spirit Reaper" destroys himself.
Then onto next attacker or whatever.

Hope this helps!

Simon, so close to being 100% perfect. BUT, Spirit Reaper has to attack the opponent driectly, not just inflict damage. So close, Simon, so close.
 
I didn't even read through the whole scenario....nice catch. It's a good thing we have each other for checks and balances isn't it? I know without those others here who catch my little mistakes there would have been bits and pieces of mis-information floating about.

This is why it's key, when you judge, to not "judge in a vacuum".....meaning, if you're not 100% sure or if there is a complex scenario don't be afraid to pull another judge over and run it by them. Always judge as a TEAM and the number of mistakes and incorrect rulings will be held to a min.
 
chaosruler said:
Simon, so close to being 100% perfect. BUT, Spirit Reaper has to attack the opponent driectly, not just inflict damage. So close, Simon, so close.
Aaaarrrrrggh!...:crying_je THAT has got to be the ONE THING I forget the MOST!! Thanks for catching that chaosruler!

And John, you can ask babyarm or bishop, I definitely have NO issue asking for confirmation on anything. And I agree 100% with what you said. Judges MUST work together as a team all the time to provide the best possible (hopefully) tournament experience for players at every event.

[edit]LOL! I misread this...
John Danker said:
This is why it's key, when you judge,...
My eyes instinctively keyed in on those 4 letters together and I thought that entire statement was directed at ME!...lol!
 
skey23 said:
This is true for triggered effects like "Sangan" or "Night Assailant" when it's discarded to the Graveyard. Continuous effects can and will be able to interrupt the chain resolution. It would also appear that 'some' triggered effects that involve Card Destruction will also be able to interrupt chain resolution as well. This would include effects like "Spirit Reaper"s self destruct and "Gearfried the Iron Knight"s Equip Destruct effects.
Unfortunately, that's not the case here. "Spirit Reaper" will destroy himself immediately upon resolution of the effect that targets it (except during the Damage Step). This can and will occur in the middle of a chain resolution. The explanation given by John is perfectly accurate for this scenario.
Ok, I'm going to assume you mean you are equipping "Blast with Chain" to "Gearfried the Iron Knight" during the Damage Step on this one. Here's how it would break down, based of the other threads we've had discussing "Blast with Chain" and "Gearfried the Iron Knight".

P1 attacks P2s "Shining Angel" with "Gearfried the Iron Knight".
Neither P1, nor P2 respond with any effects, so we move into Damage Step.
During Damage Calculation (Sub Step 3) P1 activates "Blast with Chain" and equips it to "Gearfried the Iron Knight".
P2 does not respond.
"Blast with Chain" resolves and equips to "Gearfried the Iron Knight" and his effect immediately kicks in and destroys "Blast with Chain"; however, the destruction part of "Blast with Chain" cannot resolve at this point in the Damage Step (or so we think at this time). It must wait until the Resolve Effects (Sub Step 5) portion of the Damage Step.
So "Gearfried the Iron Knight" gets the boost, then loses the boost, but still destroys the "Shining Angel" cause he was bigger to begin with (go figure). Now, "Shining Angel"s effect won't kick in until the Send to Graveyard (Sub Step 6) portion of the Damage Step. So if you've been paying attention, we've got a bit of an issue here don't we..lol. Once we enter Sub Step 5, "Shining Angel" is no longer a valid target for destruction via "Blast with Chain"s effect because it has already been deemed destroyed by battle. If there are no other cards on the field except "Gearfried the Iron Knight" and "Shining Angel", guess who MUST be destroyed by the effect of "Blast with Chain"? That's right, you guessed it..."Gearfried the Iron Knight"! Why? Because the effect of "Blast with Chain" is mandatory, and since "Shining Angel"s effect won't kick in and summon another monster until Sub Step 6, we've got NO CHOICE..lol.

Did all of that make sense to everyone?
"Tsukuyomi"s effect is a triggered effect that activates when it is flipped face-up. Therefore it MUST wait until the current chain resolves before it will be allowed to resolve. In your example, "Nobleman of Crossout" it used on the face-down "Tsukuyomi", the opponent chains with "Ceasefire". Since "Tsukuyomi" is not a Flip Effect monster, her effect WILL still activate from being flipped face-up, but will not be allowed to resolve until the current chain resolves. So, "Ceasefire" resolves and inflicts 500 points damage, then "Nobleman of Crossout" attempts to resolve, but since "Tsukuyomi" is no longer face-down, it's effect 'Disappears', or resolves without effect. The chain is done resolving, NOW "Tsukuyomi"s effect will kick in and since she is the only monster face-up on the field, she can target herself and she'll be flipped back face-down.

Hope this helps!


hmm ok yea, this help lots skey, its quite in depth
so, Gearfried the Iron Knight's effect immediately kicks in cuz his is a continous effect? thats interesting....makes sense too
but the destruction part of Blast with Chain cannot resolve until Sub Step 5.

What sub step does the monster deemed destryoed?

greay explanantion skey
and yea when John wrote it's key
i saw skey too :p
 
ChaosMachine said:
Why wouldnt you just chain it to your opponents Mobius??

what do you mean?
i assume you mean chain BwC to your opp's Mobius?
well yes you can, but once the BwC is chained and targetting Spirit Reaper, SR will be destroyed, then bwc will be destroy via game mechanic, and bwc's destruction effect wont work.
 
He actually makes a good point stategically. Is there any reason why BwC couldn't be EQUIPPED to Mobius as well as chained to it? That would prevent the whole self-destruction of reaper...

-pssvr
 
pssvr said:
He actually makes a good point stategically. Is there any reason why BwC couldn't be EQUIPPED to Mobius as well as chained to it? That would prevent the whole self-destruction of reaper...

-pssvr

Let's have a look...
Ah! Found the problem. Part of the text of Blast with Chain:

Equip a monster on your side of the field with this card.

So you can't equip it on your opponent's monster.
 
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