Desert Sunlight and Creature Swap

BobDoily

New Member
Okay here's the situation.

I activate Creature Swap to give my opponent say a Sheep Token.
They have one face-down monster, say Mask of Darkness or Magician of Faith.
They Chain with Desert Sunlight.

So his monster goes to face-up defense position. Then the switch occurs so at the end of the chain I have his monster in face-up defense position on my side of the field.

Now here's the question. Who has the right to the flip-effect. It was triggered on my opponent's side of the field but the monster at the end of the chain before the new chain starts with the flip-effect is on my side of the field. I forget is this case controller at the time of it being flipped or at the time of chain resolution?
 
sometimes I feel that logic might not be the only grond on rules and regulations. I mean in real life, some laws don't make sense either. how does a society come to punish people selling marijuana more harshly than murderers? I don't know, but that's just the way it is.
I am studying accounting. some rules just make no sense whatsoever. but rules are rules, I have to follow them as an accountant. so I am pretty used to the KSS thing that's been going on with the game.

Btw, excellent posts everyone. I enjoyed reading them, even though there are like 81 posts. lol
 
I posted this question to the judge's board, it wasn't answered on the board but Curtis replied to my e-mail address as follows....

A discussion has brought up this situation. I thought it might be beneficial for all to see and understand.

Mike has only sheep tokens on his side of the field and activates Creature Swap.

Paul has only a face down Magician of Faith and decides to chain Desert Sunlight.

Neither player adds to the chain.


Resolve:

1 Desert Sunlight resolves flipping Paul's Magician of Faith to face up defense position activating it's effect which will start a new chain after the current chain resolves giving Paul the effect of Magician of Faith.

2 Creature Swap resolves and Mike selects one of his sheep tokens, Paul selects his face up defense position Magician of Faith and the two monster switch control.

Is this resolution correct?


It is correct.

- Curtis Schultz
 
krazykidpsx said:
cuase we broke our heads for nothing since we already knew who got the effect.

I WANT ANSWERS FOR X-FORCE VS EoA!

:)

please...
They've still not responded to my posts to the list on that so either they're snowed under with questions on it and want to answer them all at one time or they're checking up on it to reverify it. The lack of posts to the list since this ruling (other than one on card text) implies snowed under is more likely...
 
John Danker said:
I posted this question to the judge's board, it wasn't answered on the board but Curtis replied to my e-mail address as follows....

A discussion has brought up this situation. I thought it might be beneficial for all to see and understand.

Mike has only sheep tokens on his side of the field and activates Creature Swap.

Paul has only a face down Magician of Faith and decides to chain Desert Sunlight.

Neither player adds to the chain.


Resolve:

1 Desert Sunlight resolves flipping Paul's Magician of Faith to face up defense position activating it's effect which will start a new chain after the current chain resolves giving Paul the effect of Magician of Faith.

2 Creature Swap resolves and Mike selects one of his sheep tokens, Paul selects his face up defense position Magician of Faith and the two monster switch control.

Is this resolution correct?


It is correct.

- Curtis Schultz

Thanks, I'm glad this is finally resolved.
 
I don't understand why everyone is so confused by the EoA and EF ruling. Especially since every knows that Skill Drain cannot negate EF's effect. The only thing that happens while EF is on the field is the cost to tribute it. Once it is tributed, it goes to the graveyard ( or RFG if say for instance Banisher from Light is on the field). The only thing that is going to keep your opponent from tributing it would be something that keeps them from tributing monsters, like Mask of Restrict. Once its cost has been payed, its effect can activate. Since it is now in the grayeyard, it can be negated by EoA. Plain and simple.
 
papewaio said:
I don't understand why everyone is so confused by the EoA and EF ruling. Especially since every knows that Skill Drain cannot negate EF's effect. The only thing that happens while EF is on the field is the cost to tribute it. Once it is tributed, it goes to the graveyard ( or RFG if say for instance Banisher from Light is on the field). The only thing that is going to keep your opponent from tributing it would be something that keeps them from tributing monsters, like Mask of Restrict. Once its cost has been payed, its effect can activate. Since it is now in the grayeyard, it can be negated by EoA. Plain and simple.
EoA negates effects that ACTIVATE in the Graveyard, not that resolve.
If you're paying the cost while EF is on the field you're activating it on the field as the FAQ says costs are paid when a card/effect is activated, not before.
 
daivahataka said:
EoA negates effects that ACTIVATE in the Graveyard, not that resolve.
If you're paying the cost while EF is on the field you're activating it on the field as the FAQ says costs are paid when a card/effect is activated, not before.
A cost is paid then the effect is activated. In your argument, how would you explain Exiled Force working with SKill Drain on the field? The cost is to tribute EF, once the cost is paid, then the effect can activate.

The activation and effects of cards can be negated, but the costs are still paid. Why, because the cost happens first.
 
papewaio said:
A cost is paid then the effect is activated. In your argument, how would you explain Exiled Force working with Skill Drain on the field? The cost is to tribute EF, once the cost is paid, then the effect can activate.

The activation and effects of cards can be negated, but the costs are still paid. Why, because the cost happens first.
Effects can still activate on the field while Skill Drain is active, they just can't resolve. The reason (at least according to the Japanese rulings) that Exiled Force works under Skill Drain is because even though it activates on the filed, it is no longer on the filed when the effect resolves and thus cannot be negated by Skill Drain. Of course, that's what we all thought too, until the current ruling was handed down.
 
"Skill Drain" negates the effects of face-up Effect Monsters on the field, but does not negate effects that activate in the Graveyard, such as "Witch of the Black Forest", "Sangan", "Mystic Tomato", "Giant Rat", "Exiled Force", "Sinister Serpent", and "Vampire Lord".

This says that Exiled Force activates in the graveyard. So not sure where the confusion is at here.
 
papewaio said:
"Skill Drain" negates the effects of face-up Effect Monsters on the field, but does not negate effects that activate in the Graveyard, such as "Witch of the Black Forest", "Sangan", "Mystic Tomato", "Giant Rat", "Exiled Force", "Sinister Serpent", and "Vampire Lord".

This says that Exiled Force activates in the graveyard. So not sure where the confusion is at here.

It's important to note that Skill Drain only keeps the effects of face up monsters from resolving, not from activating. This is what others were trying to point out. This is important for monster effects such as Tribe Infecting Virus which require a cost to activate their effect. In that case TIV can activate and pay the cost, Skill Drain just keeps TIV's effect from resolving.....that's where the confusion lies. (often times)
 
papewaio said:
"Skill Drain" negates the effects of face-up Effect Monsters on the field, but does not negate effects that activate in the Graveyard, such as "Witch of the Black Forest", "Sangan", "Mystic Tomato", "Giant Rat", "Exiled Force", "Sinister Serpent", and "Vampire Lord".

This says that Exiled Force activates in the graveyard. So not sure where the confusion is at here.
Geeze. That is the confusion. General concensus was that the inclusion of Exiled Force in that list was a mistake. I posted the original question to the list for precisely that reason. We were all surprised to learn that UDE says it is correct and that Exiled Force actually does activate in the graveyard. Known game mechanics and the Japanese rulings would seem to contradict that stance. Hence the 8 million page thread on the topic elsewhere on this forum.

The EoA vs. EF ruling has changed/introduced (at least in the minds of most of us) a major mechanic change to the game and caused general mayhem in just about every thread even remotely related to control of a card, activation timing, and activation location.

I'd suggest we take this discussion to that thread however, since it really is off topic for this one. This one is resolved.
 
why Skill Drain cant negate the effect is because Skill Drain negates the resolution of face up monsters on the field.

meaning you can activate book the monster and the monster can still resolve since it isnt face up.

exiled belive it or not is working in the same manner.

you tribute it for its effect, is he still on the field? no he isnt. so he can do the effect. thats the loop hole.

that only face up monsters on the field cant get their effects resolved.
 
A discussion has brought up this situation. I thought it might be beneficial for all to see and understand.

Mike has only sheep tokens on his side of the field and activates Creature Swap.

Paul has only a face down Magician of Faith and decides to chain Desert Sunlight.

Neither player adds to the chain.


Resolve:

1 Desert Sunlight resolves flipping Paul's Magician of Faith to face up defense position activating it's effect which will start a new chain after the current chain resolves giving Paul the effect of Magician of Faith.

2 Creature Swap resolves and Mike selects one of his sheep tokens, Paul selects his face up defense position Magician of Faith and the two monster switch control.

Is this resolution correct?


It is correct.

- Curtis Schultz

I dunno, there wasn't much emphasis on the real question. Maybe he glossed over the part about "Paul gets the effect".

Oh, and there's a topic for Exiled Force.
http://www.igforums.com//threads/8207
 
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