Ok, I need help with this...

S

skey23

Council of Heroes
Here's the scenario.

Player A has an active "Convulsion of Nature" on the field, and a "Reversal Quiz" in hand. (do you see where I'm going with this yet?)
Player A activates his "Reversal Quiz". The cost, of course, is to send all cards in hand and on the field to the Graveyard. (do you see it yet?)

When do the decks revert back to 'normal'? As soon as "Convulsion of Nature" is removed from the field? Or when "Reversal Quiz" finishes resolving?

My issue is the fact that 'nothing' is supposed to be able to interrupt the resolution of a card effect.

Thanks!
 
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pssvr said:
Neither of your examples, skey, are quite the same as this dilemna. In your first, the effect has already begun resolving. In your second, the chain has more than one link. The problem at hand here is in a situation with only one link, is there any limbo time between the forming of a chain and the resolving of a chain. And I would say flat out NO. The deck is still upside-down when the chain resolves, because there was no opportunity for Convulsion's effect to die. Let's look at two chains here:
1) a. Activate Reversal Quiz, sending Convulsion to the grave
b. Resolve Quiz. No break here at all.
2) a. Activate Reversal Quiz
b. Hypothetically, chain MST (PLEASE DON'T SAY IT, I KNOW!)
c. Resolve MST
d. Convulsion's effect Disappears between chain links
e. Quiz resolves

In the second, the deck has been returned to its normal position. In the first, it is still upside-down.

-pssvr
Click to expand...

Couldn't chain MST to Reversal with Convulsion as target because it wouldn't exist any more as a target as it was a cost paid at activation of Reversal Quiz. Is this what you said you knew?
I.e. not a valid target only target available on opponents side of the field would be Reversal Quiz waiting to resolve it's effect.
 
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skey23 said:
Ok, I'll agree about the "Acid Trap Hole" example not quite matching, but let's look at the "Enemy Controller" example again, this time comparing it to the initial scenario given.

Face-up continuous effect on field - "Convulsion of Nature"
Card with cost - "Reversal Quiz"
Cost - removal of continuous effect from the field

Face-up continuous effect on field - "Jinzo"
Card with cost - "Enemy Controller"
Cost - removal of conitnuous effect from the field

So far, they are pretty much identical. Now since activation costs are paid 1st, that means that "Jinzo" is gone at the time where both me and my opponent can respond to my "Enemy Controller". Could they then "Magic Drain" or "Magic Jammer" my "Enemy Controller" since "Jinzo" is no longer negating Traps? Remember, "Enemy Controller" has not finished resolving. I've simply paid the cost to activate it.

The same goes for "Reversal Quiz". I've simply paid the cost to activate it, but is hasn't finished resolving yet.

So if it's determined that continuous effects leave the field immediately, regardless of what's going on, then I have no issue with that..lol.
Click to expand...

Yes they could.:)
 
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skey23 said:
Yes, that's what he said he knew. That's why he put the hypothetical in there..lol...:p
Well, duh! I know that! The question is WHEN!?...:p
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Well Duh as soon as it Convulsion leaves the field and how do you make the:) with tongue sticking out
 
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Well, while typing I stumbled across something. The question is, if a Continuous Effect is active, and a cost for a different effect removes it from the field, at what point does the Continous Effect no longer apply? After the cost is payed and before the effect is added to the chain? Or after the effect is added to the chain? I think we have an answer in Emergency Provisions' rulings

If you have "Imperial Order" active on your side of the field, you may send it to the Graveyard as part of the cost to activate "Emergency Provisions" and "Emergency Provisions" will not be negated.

So here we have a Continuous Effect being removed from the field as a cost and becoming inactive by the time the effect for that cost is addedd to the chain.

EDIT: :p is a ":" with a lower case "p" after it instead of a ")".
 
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Digital Jedi said:
Well, while typing I stumbled across something. The question is, If a Continuous effect is active, and a cost for a different effect removes it from the field, at what point does the continous effect no longer apply? After the cost is payed and before the effect is added to the chain? Or after the effect is added to the chain. I think we have an answer in Emergency Provisions' rulings

If you have "Imperial Order" active on your side of the field, you may send it to the Graveyard as part of the cost to activate "Emergency Provisions" and "Emergency Provisions" will not be negated.

So here we have a Continuous Effect being removed from the field as a cost and becoming inactive by the time the effect for that cost is addedd to the chain.
Click to expand...
Ok, THAT settles it.
-pssvr
 
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Digital Jedi said:
Well, while typing I stumbled across something. The question is, if a Continuous Effect is active, and a cost for a different effect removes it from the field, at what point does the Continous Effect no longer apply? After the cost is payed and before the effect is added to the chain? Or after the effect is added to the chain? I think we have an answer in Emergency Provisions' rulings

If you have "Imperial Order" active on your side of the field, you may send it to the Graveyard as part of the cost to activate "Emergency Provisions" and "Emergency Provisions" will not be negated.

So here we have a Continuous Effect being removed from the field as a cost and becoming inactive by the time the effect for that cost is addedd to the chain.

EDIT: :p is a ":" with a lower case "p" after it instead of a ")".
Click to expand...

Bravo Digital
 
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Digital Jedi said:
If you have "Imperial Order" active on your side of the field, you may send it to the Graveyard as part of the cost to activate "Emergency Provisions" and "Emergency Provisions" will not be negated.
Click to expand...
Yay!...The answer I was looking for!! Wow, that took longer than I expected...lol.

Lancedolittle said:
how do you make the:) with tongue sticking out
Click to expand...
When you're typing your post, other than a quick response, you should have a smiley next to the scissors at the top.
 
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Imperial Order only negates the effect (i.e. the resolution of the spell, no impact upon the activation), so I still stick by my explaination ~ 14 posts above.
I think the problem the guys seem to be having is that they're assuming that just because it's a one card chain the resolution occurs immediately after the card is activated, but if that's the case when was it decided that it was a one card chain?
 
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daivahataka said:
Imperial Order only negates the effect (i.e. the resolution of the spell, no impact upon the activation), so I still stick by my explaination ~ 14 posts above.
I think the problem the guys seem to be having is that they're assuming that just because it's a one card chain the resolution occurs immediately after the card is activated, but if that's the case when was it decided that it was a one card chain?
Click to expand...
Might I point out that Imperial Order's inability to negate activations changes nothing. What we're looking at here is a Continuous Effect being removed from the field as a cost for another effect. The timing for both scenarios is identical.
 
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Digital Jedi said:
Might I point out that Imperial Order's inability to negate activations changes nothing. What we're looking at here is a Continuous Effect being removed from the field as a cost for another effect. The timing for both scenarios is identical.
Click to expand...
But I'm pointing out that they're asking about it occuring mid-resolution as though resolution were an instant event once a card has been activated, which, as you know, it is not, there's the whole transferring of chaining priority to go through first.
 
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Well, I understand what your trying to say, but even though a Cost is payed seperate from the effect, the paying of the cost is NOT the chain point. The chain point is when the effect is ADDED to the chain.

In your explanations, you have this gap where the cost is payed, a card is chained to the cost, and then the effect for the cost is added to the chain. Thats simply not the case. That would mean that You could chain all your set traps to Emergency Provisions' activation. And we all know you cant do that.

A cost is payed, the effect is added to the chain AND THEN your opponent chains to the effect.
 
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No what I'm saying is that Imperial Order negates effects when they try to resolve, it doesn't prevent them going on the chain. So until the time to resolve cards arrives it has no impact on the current card, & so the fact of what Imperial Order does is irrelevant. All that matters is that the effect is added to the chain and before anything else can be added to the chain Imperial Order's effect ceases.

E.g.
1. A activate's MST targeting Imperial Order on opponent's field.
2. B Chains Emergency Provisions (they paniced) sending Imperial Order to the Graveyard as a cost.
3. Imperial Order is no longer in effect & nothing else is added to the chain by either player.

=> Emergency Provisions resolves giving B 1000LP, then MST resolves without effect since it's target is no longer on the field.

Skey32 seemed to be assuming that, in your example, Emergency Provisions would resolve as soon as activated, with Imperial Order's effect Disappearing during the resolution.
 
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To activate Reversal Quiz the Convulsion of Nature will be sent to the grave activation cost now there is an open window where first the deck will turn back face-down (due to Convulsion of Nature no longer being on the field) next the opponent may chain to the activation of Reversal Quiz, then the turn player may add to the chain, then once no more effects are added to the chain you will start resolving the chain (during the resolution of each link nothing else would be able to "jump in" but in between links resolving conditions are checked, continuous effects are applied, etc.) Since neither player is going to add to the chain then you only have the 1 effect resolving but you still have a chain, you still have the timing for paying costs, and waiting to see if the chain will be added to, and then and only then will you begin resolution. That is why there is a window for the effect of Convulsion of Nature to no longer apply. Even a single card has at least activation and resolution as distinct points in time where other things can happen, the game state gets checked, etc. It is only during resolution of an effect that you don't apply new continuous effects, you still stop applying continuous effects during resolution as soon as the card is destroyed. For example: If your only "Des Wombat" is destroyed by "Judgment of Anubis" or "Ring of Destruction", it is no longer on the field so it will not protect you against the damage from these card effects.
 
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Yay! The answer I was looking for!..er..um..wait..didn't I already say that? :drugged: [edit]This was in response to Anthonyj's post.

BTW..I started this thread in an effort to make everybody think more about activation and resolution in conjunction with continuous effects. I figured I've been on here long enough that I can 'mimic' Danker w/o too many issues!...;)
 
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masterwoo0 said:
My only question is, since we have established that Convulsion of Nature being sent to the Graveyard would return the decks back face-down, at what point does the Black Pendant inflict 500 damage to your opponent (that you are using to kill him with).

I have seen people wait until Reversal Quiz finishes resolving to inflict the damage of Black Pendant, but I would think it would do it once it is sent.
Click to expand...
Isn't the damage part considered a triggered effect? Therefore it would have to wait until "Reversal Quiz" resovles.
 
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