Royal Oppression

K

kingpinopie

Himoura Shinta
Ok... Royal Oppression... can it negate ANY special summon?? BLS.. Nimbles... etc?? and do you have to pay 800 each time you negate ??
 
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novastar said:
Not at all DJ, i'm actually just following exactly what the FAQ states about Royal Oppression.

I hear what you are saying, believe me, i don't agree, but nothing wrong with us disagreeing. I'll break it down.

So 2 ways... One using an effect that chains, the other through an effect that doesn't chain.


In this case you "chain" to the effect, that is attempting to resolve but has not happened (resolved) yet.


In this case you "respond" directly to the "action" of summoning, that is attempting to resolve, but has not happened (resolved) yet.


When you chain RO to an effect, you are NOT responding to a Special Summon directly, you are responding to an effect activating, that includes a Special Summon event. I don't see that as being caught up in the chain mechanics, the problem lies as i said before, in the fact that V-Lord/Phoenix's effect is both activated (a Trigger) and built in, so which category does it fit into?

In my opinion, it should fit into the first group, soley because you cannot properly respond to to Special Summon directly (like you would with BLS etc.) since it is a Trigger resolving off the chain, you would miss timing.
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What fun would this board be if it weren't for all the disagreements? :D

The definition of negation has always been something that has been hovering in the back of my mind as to how the summon negators really work. But until the V Lord ruling I never really had a way to confirm it. It makes more sense to me this way. I see the card as being chained to the effect, but I see the effect as resolving differently then in a normal chain. I guess . . . I hope we'll find out soon.
 
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John Danker said:
I'm still not getting any response to my thought pattern on this question.

If Vampire Lord / Phoneix activates their effect from the graveyard and the special summon is negated by Royal Oppression....where was the monster when it's special summon was negated?
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It would seem to me that if it was destroyed and sent to the Graveyard, that when its effect activated during Standby Phase, it was still in the Graveyard and if the effect resolved successfully, it would return to the field.

John Danker said:
that only leaves two places where it could be when it's special summon was negated, either floating above the field waiting to be summoned or still in the graveyard. If it's still in the graveyard then it should be ruled like Divine Wrath.
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Again, I would think that it would be similar to activating Divine Wrath on "Exiled Force" after it is tributed. You can't destroy a monster that is already in the Graveyard, so only the effect of Exiled is negated.

Wouldn't the same apply to Vampire Lord and Sacred Phoenix?
 
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Ok, so I'll post my thoughts on this topic. I feel there are two ways to look at the "Vampire Lord"/"Phoenix" scenario.

1st way to look at it:
When you activate the effect of either "Vampire Lord" or "Phoenix" in the graveyard to bring them back, you 'should' be able to chain "Royal Oppression" to that activation, just as you would to "Premature" or "Call". In this case, the ruling 'should' be just like the ruling for "Divine Wrath" because the monster NEVER left the Graveyard. This has been stated by numerous people already.

2nd way to look at it:
The effect of "Royal Oppression" can't stop an effect that activates in the Graveyard, so "Royal Oppression" would have to wait for the monster to 'hit the field', if you will, then, just like "Solemn Judgment" and "Horn of Heaven", it can be used to 'negate' that Special Summon. This is just my thoughts, mind you, I am NOT stating any kind of fact here.
 
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Digital Jedi said:
That is not correct. I keep using the words "undo" and "rewind" and the statement "it makes the summon as if it never happened." Negation would make the summon unsuccesful because the game never considered it to have happened, so no return for BLS.
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And no return for Vampire Lord in the next standby Phase either since, as far as the game is concerned he was never summoned in this standby phase. See my point yet?
 
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I did post the question of Royal Oppression's mechanics VS. Divine Wrath concerning monsters that special summon themselves from the graveyard. We'll have to wait and see if we get a mechanics explination.

If I can't get an answer there I'll post it to the L3 judge's list in hopes that someone will be able to give me the logic behind the ruling.
 
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I've actually mentioned this to Gary on Pojo, and he agree with my logic as well.

There is definately a contradiction here, and my belief is that it is with V-Lord, as the "new" logic from the Phoenix ruling should be the right logic.

The effect Triggers in the Graveyard, you chain RO and negate the effect, but V-Lord is not destroyed.

I'd love to see a logic the other way. I think the only one that can help you is Dave ;).
 
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Perhaps that's why when I posted to the judge's list I got the personal reply back from Kevin, "Why do you want to know? Is this a dispute on a forum?"

This could be one we'll be waiting for from Konami that gets put "on the list"
 
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Hey, I got an Email from Curtis and this is what he says,

"The Special Summon can be negated with Royal Oppresion.

If you use Royal Oppresion to negate this Special Summon, the Phoenix will not rise again.

"You can activate "Divine Wrath" when "Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys" is Special Summoned by its own effect. Because this effect activates in the Graveyard, and is being negated while "Sacred Phoenix of Nepthys" is in the Graveyard, "Sacred Phoenix of Nepthys" is never Special Summoned (so the card is never moved from the Graveyard) and is never destroyed. Because it is not destroyed, its effect to Special Summon itself does not activate again."

It is similar to this ruling. "

Also, if you chain RO to the special summon of BLS, your opponent cannot reborn him because he was never special summoned properly.

I forgot to ask him if BLS then goes to the graveyard w/o being properly summoned.

This looks like a good card to stop Chaos and Phoenix.
 
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FiendMaster said:
Hey, I got an Email from Curtis and this is what he says,

"The Special Summon can be negated with Royal Oppresion.

If you use Royal Oppresion to negate this Special Summon, the Phoenix will not rise again.

"You can activate "Divine Wrath" when "Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys" is Special Summoned by its own effect. Because this effect activates in the Graveyard, and is being negated while "Sacred Phoenix of Nepthys" is in the Graveyard, "Sacred Phoenix of Nepthys" is never Special Summoned (so the card is never moved from the Graveyard) and is never destroyed. Because it is not destroyed, its effect to Special Summon itself does not activate again."

It is similar to this ruling. "

Also, if you chain RO to the special summon of BLS, your opponent cannot reborn him because he was never special summoned properly.

I forgot to ask him if BLS then goes to the graveyard w/o being properly summoned.

This looks like a good card to stop Chaos and Phoenix.
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BLS goes to the graveyard, because Royal Oppression destroys it ;)
 
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Chillout1984 said:
BLS goes to the graveyard, because Royal Oppression destroys it ;)
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Well... I would agree with the part about BLS going to the Graveyard because the cost has already been paid for his summon, but I dont think he's destroyed because he was never summoned.

The way the text reads, you either:

A) "negate a special summon" by paying 800 life points.

Vampire Lord
Twin-Headed Behemoth
Sacred Phoenix

or,

B) "negate and destroy the card that has the effect of special summoning a monster" by paying 800 life points.

Marauding Captain
Cobra Jar
Scapegoat


You can't destroy a monster that is already destroyed or resides in the Graveyard since it is already destroyed. The only thing that you can do is negate the effect.
 
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BLS, if it's special summon from the hand is negated by Royal Oppression, is indeed destroyed. Just as when Vampire Lord's summon from the hand is negated by Horn of Heaven Vampire Lord is destroyed and it's effect special summons it from the graveyard on the next standby phase....however, Vampire Lord's effect doesn't require it to be properly summoned to get it's effect, only that it is destroyed and sent to the graveyard. We know that BLS must be properly summoned for it to be eligable to be special summoned from the graveyard so that's a different story.
 
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Well if Curtis is saying that the scenario works as such for Phoenix, i really don't see the difference with V-Lord. I knew i wasn't just crazy...:)

Seems like they should change the RO vs. V-Lord ruling?
 
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novastar said:
Well if Curtis is saying that the scenario works as such for Phoenix, i really don't see the difference with V-Lord. I knew i wasn't just crazy...:)

Seems like they should change the RO vs. V-Lord ruling?
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I agree novastar. The first time you pointed it out I just couldn't justify it any other way. We'll see though how soon (if ever) the FAQ is changed or it's put into the judge's list. This might be a case where "Konami says so!"
 
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Ready for a new twist?

It was ruled at the Pomona SJC that Royal Oppression can be used in the damage step to negate the special summon of a monster (such as with Giant Rat / Mystic Tomato, etc.)

The thought pattern was that it has the same timing as Horn of Heaven.
 
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John Danker said:
Ready for a new twist?

It was ruled at the Pomona SJC that Royal Oppression can be used in the damage step to negate the special summon of a monster (such as with Giant Rat / Mystic Tomato, etc.)

The thought pattern was that it has the same timing as Horn of Heaven.
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I know, i mentioned that in my first couple of posts.

Gary told me on Realms that he was told by Kevin that you could, during a Tourny he was Head Judging.

Honestly, i usually have a reason why it should be wrong, but i can definately see this. It has the timing of Horn/SJ anyway, so i could see it being used in the Damage Step.

I'm just sceptical of anything Kevin says these days after the Exiled blunder.
 
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About Royal Oppression in the Damage Step: The JERP says that Royal Oppression can't be activated in the Damage Step. Updated 2004/7/7 and 2005/1/24.

About Royal Oppression VS Vampire Lord/Nephthys:
Royal Oppression has two opportunities to negate these two cards. One when the effect is activated (in a chain, such as with Divine Wrath) and one when the effect resolves (such as with Horn of Heaven). The Vampire Lord and Royal Oppression ruling is for the second case, while the Nephthys ruling is for the first case.

Since they don't need to be on the field when destroyed, they can just special summon themselves again for the first place.

I could say, "Honestly, I don't see how this is so hard," but then I'd be lying. But from the beginning, we've been told that it's only monsters special summoned from outside effects that couldn't be negated by Horn of Heaven.
 
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In actuality, Vampire Lord Does need to be on the field to be destroyed (well not specifically the field read on: )

Also, if this card is destroyed and sent to the Graveyard by your opponent's card effect, it is Special Summoned to the field during your next Standby Phase.
 
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