Does the effect of The End of Anubis negate the effect of Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV6? I mean the effect of summoning Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV8.
The End of Anubis VS Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV6
- Thread starter Madma
- Start date
daivahataka
Gold Member
So you'd declare activation of a spell/trap and pay the cost before activating it? Bit dodgy since this would allow players to bluff so as to check if you've a negation ready, if you do they claim that they meant one of their other cards if they both have the same activation costs, afterall you don't know which card in their spell and trap zone they should've flipped.pssvr said:
IMO a card is activated when you say so and pay the cost, paying the cost is simulataneous to the activation, as it used to be, until they changed it on the main site, suspiciously just after Curtis' little EoA negates Exiled ruling (can anyone say "covering your ass"?).
In fact upon checking they seem to have switched it back to "when" and not "before":
Also possibly worth noting would be:
[/font]
Though further down they still have:
They can't even keep their story straight on 1 webpage!!!! GRR!!!
[/font]
masterwoo0
NINJA4LIFE
Only problem here is that you must tribute Exiled Force face-up, which is one of the conditions of his effect.
This would mean if he is "Set", you must first Flip Summon him, then tribute for the cost.
If he is being Summoned from hand, it must be a Normal Summon, not Set, and then proceed to tribute him while face-up.
Exiled Force is not a Graveyard effect. It just so happens that he ended up in the Graveyard when the effect activates only because he must send himself "somewhere" other than the field, Deck, or Return to Hand, as the cost to activate the effect.
On a side note, wouldn't it be cool if you could return him to hand for his effect??
This would mean if he is "Set", you must first Flip Summon him, then tribute for the cost.
If he is being Summoned from hand, it must be a Normal Summon, not Set, and then proceed to tribute him while face-up.
Exiled Force is not a Graveyard effect. It just so happens that he ended up in the Graveyard when the effect activates only because he must send himself "somewhere" other than the field, Deck, or Return to Hand, as the cost to activate the effect.
On a side note, wouldn't it be cool if you could return him to hand for his effect??
I don't care how many erroneous statements are on the website. Did you miss my little story about Raigeki Break vs. 7 tools? And no, there wouldn't be any bluffing, as you place the card on the field face up when you declare your intention to activate it.
-pssvr
-pssvr
masterwoo0
NINJA4LIFE
Cost are not paid before activating the Card. There must be some kind of effect or game mechanic that's being misinterpreted that would lead you to believe that.
Seven Tools of the Bandit for example. Activate the card, "pay" 1000 life points to activate "the effect". There's no other way to do it. You can't pay 1000 then flip the card face-up.
Raigeki Break. Activate the card, discard a card from hand to pay the cost for activating "the effect". You are only activating the effect, not resolving it.
The Creator. Select a monster, activate his effect, discard a card from hand. This is not a cost, but some confuse it with one. It is part of his effect to Special Summon it. The effect does not require a cost to activate, which we know most cost effects require. You are basically trading cards from Hand, Graveyard, to Field.
Seven Tools of the Bandit for example. Activate the card, "pay" 1000 life points to activate "the effect". There's no other way to do it. You can't pay 1000 then flip the card face-up.
Raigeki Break. Activate the card, discard a card from hand to pay the cost for activating "the effect". You are only activating the effect, not resolving it.
The Creator. Select a monster, activate his effect, discard a card from hand. This is not a cost, but some confuse it with one. It is part of his effect to Special Summon it. The effect does not require a cost to activate, which we know most cost effects require. You are basically trading cards from Hand, Graveyard, to Field.
You really haven't understood a thing I've said, have you? Let me say this... very... slowly... so you... can pay... attention... to me.
1. I flip RB face up, discarding a card and activating it.
2. The opponent chains with 7 tools, negating the activation of RB.
3. RB was never activated, so the cost was never paid, right? WRONG! Although the activation was negated, the cost was still paid, and I do not "un-discard". My card sits in the graveyard.
4. Costs are payed before activation, otherwise, I'd get my card back.
Did... you... get... that?
-pssvr
1. I flip RB face up, discarding a card and activating it.
2. The opponent chains with 7 tools, negating the activation of RB.
3. RB was never activated, so the cost was never paid, right? WRONG! Although the activation was negated, the cost was still paid, and I do not "un-discard". My card sits in the graveyard.
4. Costs are payed before activation, otherwise, I'd get my card back.
Did... you... get... that?
-pssvr
masterwoo0
NINJA4LIFE
Isnt that the purpose of "Cost"?
This isnt like McDonalds where you pay for your food first, and if you dont like it, you get your money back.
A Cost has always been a Non-Refundable Payment to activate an effect that requires a Cost be paid.
You're right, I dont understand the point of arguing what the majority of people already know.
Your statement about Exiled Force as far as
1 You declare that you are activating the card's effect. Activation condition's must be correct.
2 You pay any costs, including designating a target, if it is required.
3 The card is now activated, and will be placed on the chain block.
-pssvr
is misleading. The card isnt activated when the Cost was paid. The "effect" is activated when you pay the cost.
The card Exiled Force has no activation. Monsters are summoned. Their effects activate.
Spell and Trap Cards are activated (flipped face-up). Once they are face-up, any cost must be paid to activate "the effect", or by virtue of it being face-up, the effect activates.
Spell and Trap Cards are a 2 part Activation, and that's what I am trying to get across to you, Pssvr.
This isnt like McDonalds where you pay for your food first, and if you dont like it, you get your money back.
A Cost has always been a Non-Refundable Payment to activate an effect that requires a Cost be paid.
You're right, I dont understand the point of arguing what the majority of people already know.
Your statement about Exiled Force as far as
1 You declare that you are activating the card's effect. Activation condition's must be correct.
2 You pay any costs, including designating a target, if it is required.
3 The card is now activated, and will be placed on the chain block.
-pssvr
is misleading. The card isnt activated when the Cost was paid. The "effect" is activated when you pay the cost.
The card Exiled Force has no activation. Monsters are summoned. Their effects activate.
Spell and Trap Cards are activated (flipped face-up). Once they are face-up, any cost must be paid to activate "the effect", or by virtue of it being face-up, the effect activates.
Spell and Trap Cards are a 2 part Activation, and that's what I am trying to get across to you, Pssvr.
Nitpicky, but yes, you are technically right there.
But the point is: It seems to be the opinion of most people (and you) that costs are a part of activation. If that is true, then negating activation means negating costs, which it clearly does not. Therefore, costs must not be part of activation. So exiled will be negated by EoA. Point proven, and case closed. I refuse to argue any more about something I already know is true.
-pssvr
masterwoo0
NINJA4LIFE
I'm not trying to argue, but you really proved my point as well as anyone could.
I stated that effects are "activated" when you pay the cost.
Would that not meant that when you tribute Exiled Force to activate his effect, it was done from the field, so the effect activated there?
Anyway, you have your perspective, and I will leave it at that.
I stated that effects are "activated" when you pay the cost.
Would that not meant that when you tribute Exiled Force to activate his effect, it was done from the field, so the effect activated there?
Anyway, you have your perspective, and I will leave it at that.
Costs are not a part of activation? How can you seperate the two?pssvr said:
masterwoo0
NINJA4LIFE
So since Cannon Soldier is more or less the same principle effect when you tribute him for his effect, would that mean that Anubis would negate him as well?
No. Because it doesnt matter where the card goes once it's tributed. It could be removed from play by Banisher of the Light, and the effect still resolves because the activation took place on the field.
It doesnt say in Exiled Force's effect, as the argument was for in the past
"Send this face up monster to the Graveyard. Destroy 1 monster on the field."
That would clearly make his effect a Graveyard activation.
No. Because it doesnt matter where the card goes once it's tributed. It could be removed from play by Banisher of the Light, and the effect still resolves because the activation took place on the field.
It doesnt say in Exiled Force's effect, as the argument was for in the past
"Send this face up monster to the Graveyard. Destroy 1 monster on the field."
That would clearly make his effect a Graveyard activation.
Well, you have a point, but I think you are slightly confused. Exiled Force, like Toon Cannon Soldier, is a wherever-it-lands effect. So he IS subject to The End of Anubis under normal circumstances. If Banisher of the Light were in play, you would be correct that he would be unaffected by EoA, because his effect would activate out of play. It should also be pointed out that Peten the Dark Clown will have left the graveyard by the time his effect activates, so he is almost non-negatable.
-pssvr
-pssvr
<ripping all hair out since this has already been retracted as incorrect by the Judge's List>
<in my best Jack Nicholson voice>Okay Sparky let me explain this to you so we can be on the same page. Something has to send Exiled Force to the graveyard see? So the "effect" has to be activated in order for that card to be sent see? Cards don't get to just jump into the graveyard and then see why they went there see?<evil here's Johnny grin>
See by game mechanic the effect is activated in order to tribute Exiled Force. So no matter where Exiled Force ends up from the cost being paid the "effect" is on the field because that is where it "started".
<in my best Jack Nicholson voice>Okay Sparky let me explain this to you so we can be on the same page. Something has to send Exiled Force to the graveyard see? So the "effect" has to be activated in order for that card to be sent see? Cards don't get to just jump into the graveyard and then see why they went there see?<evil here's Johnny grin>
See by game mechanic the effect is activated in order to tribute Exiled Force. So no matter where Exiled Force ends up from the cost being paid the "effect" is on the field because that is where it "started".
pssvr said:
But that is slightly different. When Raigeki Break (the card) is activated, the player really doesn't have a choice but to activate Raigeki Break (the effect). So, the card is activated when the card is flipped.
With Exiled Force (the card) is summoned, there is nothing that requires a mandatory triggering of its effect. The player decides whether or not to activate the effect. When they activate the effect, the cost must then be paid. Once the cost is paid the effect continues to resolve (that is mandatory by that point, because the effect has been activated and cost paid. This prevents tributing Exiled for no effect). The effect has been activated, and the card was on the field when that was done.
Correct. But no one disputes the fact that the cost paid, or discard, is non refundable.
When Raigeki Break (the card) is activated, it forces the activation of Raigeki Break (the effect). That is why the discard occurs, the effect can be negated, and the discard is not refunded. But, its still the effect that begins the process, not the cost.
When Raigeki Break (the card) is activated, it forces the activation of Raigeki Break (the effect). That is why the discard occurs, the effect can be negated, and the discard is not refunded. But, its still the effect that begins the process, not the cost.