Dark Realm vs. Exchange

[squid]

this question popped up recently in some discussions I have been having:

Player1: has a set Dragged Down to the Grave. They have 1 Exchange spelll card and 1 ARmy God-Silver in their hand.

P1 activates Exchange, forcing the P2 to take Silver, and P1 takes (whatever)

P1 activates the set DDttG and chooses to discard Silverfrom their opponent's hand.

Because Silverwas discarded by a card effect it special summons itself to the field.

QQ: Will Silver consider itself discarded by an "opponent's" effect, considering that both monster and DDttG were controlled by different players when the discard occurred, and activate?

My own thoughts are no, it would not. Silver, or Gold, would determine who was the controller of the discard effect only after it had been special summoned back to the field on the owner's side. Since DDttG was also controlled by the same player, the effect would not activate.

But I need to know for certain.

 

[skey23]

All of the Turn Player's effects get added 1st, then the opponent's.

Remember it's:

Turn Player mandatory
Opponent mandatory
Turn Player optional
Opponent optional

So ALL of the Turn Player's mandatory would go 1st, then all of the opponent's mandatory would fall in the chain afterwards.

 

[Dillie-O]

Hey skey23,

To go back to the Skill Drain with the Dark Realmers, I've always been under the impression that it doesn't matter where the effect activates, it depends on where/what position the monster is in when the effect resolves that Skill Drain negates. Cases in point:

Winged Minion (you thought I was going to say Exiled Force 8^D) - When you activate Winged Minion's effect, it is on the field, but since you tribute him as a cost, the card itself is in the graveyard, so the effect still resolves boosting another fiend.

Night Assailant/Book of Moon - If you flip summon Night Assailant, and then chain Book of Moon to his flip effect, Night Assailants effect still resolves because at the point of resolution Night Assailant is face down on the field, and Skill Drain can't touch it.

Dark Realmers - The same thing applies, as I'm seeing it. I know we're still waiting for the rulings, but regardless if the two effects resolve simultaneously or in step, when the "discard two additional cards" effect goes to resolve, The DR monster is face up on the field, in which case Skill Drain negates this effect regardless of where its effect activated.

Just my 10 bits...

 

[skey23]

I can agree with you 100%, and I'm by no means trying to say otherwise. But 'most' of the examples/rulings, if not all, for "Skill Drain" involve the monster activating it's effect while face-up on the field, then, somehow, either being removed from the field, or turned face-down before it's effect resolution. I can't recall a single ruling or question or Judge's List post involving a monster that activates it's effect while either RFP, or in the Graveyard, then, somehow, ending face-up on the field before it's effect resolution.

If I had to give a ruling TODAY on the "Sangan" scenario I put forth earlier in the discussion, I would have to say that "Sangan"s effect WOULD be negated because of the fact it ends up face-up on the field at it's effect resolution.

As a result, I'd have to say that if the two effects of the Realm monsters DO indeed form a SEGOC situation, and the controller chose to put the Special Summon effect 2nd in the SEGOC chain (so it resolved 1st), then the 2nd effect WOULD be negated if "Skill Drain" was active on the field.

So it would probably be a good idea to 'always' put the discard/destroy/whatever effect 2nd in the chain, that way you're almost guaranteed the monster would get Special Summoned every time. Provided nothing like "Divine Wrath" is chained..lol.

So, in short, I agree, but I'm just curious if that's how it 'should' be...you know...lol.

 

[rpgamer]

here are inofficel ruling from een


JP019 Magician of Chaining Attack
Currently no Ruling
--------------------------------------
EEN-JP020 Advanced Guard of Dark Realm - Beige
- This card's effect activate in Graveyard
- This card's effect is not activate if it is discard via cost of a card (e.g. [Magic Jammer])
- This card's effect would be activate even in middle of card effect (and Damage Step)
- If more than one of this cards would be in your hand when they would (somehow) be all discarded,
all of them would be special summon in a chain. If any card effect would chain into the special
summon, only the LAST of the special summon of this card would be affect.
--------------------------------------
EEN-JP021 Hunter of Dark Realm - Blue
- This card's effect is not activate if it is discard via cost of a card (e.g. [Magic Jammer])
- This card's effect would be activate even in middle of card effect
--------------------------------------

EEN-JP023 Army God of Dark Realm - Silver
- This card's effect activate in Graveyard
- This card's effect is not activate if it is discard via cost of a card (e.g. [Magic Jammer])
- This card's effect would be activate even in middle of card effect (and Damage Step)
- If more than one of this cards would be in your hand when they would (somehow) be all discarded,
all of them would be special summon in a chain. If any card effect would chain into the special
summon, only the LAST of the special summon of this card would be affect.
- Both effect would activate if this card would be discard by opponent's card's effect
- If this card's summon is negate when discard by opponent's card effect, the second
effect of this card would not be activate (it would be treated as single effect)
- Even if opponent do not have two cards in his/her hand, this card's "opponent discard" effect
can still be activate

[Silver] v. [Judgment of Sky]
[JoS] cannot stop this card's summoning, and it cannot negate the second effect if this
card is discard by opponent's card since the whole effect would be treated as one effect
if this card is discard that way.

[Silver] v. [Skill Drain]
If this card would be discard by opponent card effect and [Skill Drain] is on the field, this
card would still be special summon, AND the extra effect would still be activate (activate at
Graveyard)
--------------------------------------

i found them on dcomet.net

 

[Dillie-O]

You know, I live in Vegas...I wonder if I can call up the local sportsbook and see if they'll take odds on this one. Should I get a line started? 8^D

 

[Entilzha]

Those rulings look to be exaclty how we thought they would. Its not offical but those guys are usally right on the ball there so that is what we should see here... makes me very happy

 

[skey23]

Ok, so they are saying that both effects are treated as a single effect should the monster be discarded by the opponent's effect.

Very interesting...

 

[Dillie-O]

Yeah, I find it a little interesting too. It reminds me a little bit of Dark Mimic LV3. To some extent, DML3's second effect depends on how it was summoned. If it was normally summoned, then you draw 1 card when it is destroyed as a result of battle. If it was special summoned due to DML1's effect, then you draw two cards when it is destroyed.

Though I'm still skeptical about a few things here. I was looking at another ruling in the mix...

- This card's effect would be activate even in middle of card effect (and Damage Step)

Am I reading this wrong, or does this seem to break the normal chain resolution process. The text of the Dark Realmer's doesn't look to be continuous effects (such as Giant Kozaky) but more of a trigger. So you'd have to wait for the current chain to finish resolving and then the Realmer's effect would activate.

I don't mind being wrong, I'm just curious about the whole thing....

EDIT:...and if it is all one effect, what would happen if you chain Scapegoat to say Card Destruction. At this point, you are not allowed to special summon a monster, so The Dark Realmers couldn't hit the field, but would you still get the discard effect (provided the Card Destruction was your opponents)?

 

[Entilzha]

Dillie-O this could be a refreance to the fact these are menditory effects that you can not miss timing. Such as half way threw a chain a Silver is discarded by an effect he still activates then but does not resolve his effect till after the current chain has fully resolved. The samage step part is problee there cause you can have only one chain in the damage step but somehting could activate then just not resolved till after damage calculations.

 

[Dillie-O]

I completely jive with ya on that one. I could have been reading those things a little different. I guess we're just in the holding pattern now 8^D

 

[Tkwiget]

I'll just throw this up there for the heck of it...


If you destroy your own Vampire Lord that your opponent Snatch Steal'd, does it get Special Summoned?

No, you don't because Vampire Lord went to your Graveyard and it wasn't destroyed by an opponent's card.

Dark Realm monsters being sent to the Graveyard from something like Card Destruction after Exchange has been play is no different. The fact is the monster is going to your Graveyard which is where it activates. Since it went to your Graveyard the monster registers how it got there. By your effect, there for it will be Special Summoned onto your field but no second effect will activate.

<laughs cause he's not going to bother reading everything..>

Don't read too much into that, cause I'm probably wrong anyway with my kind of logic. =X

 

[Dillie-O]

Well, the UDE FAQ finally was released to the judges and here's the haps on the Dark Realmers...alas, I still have things to learn 8^D

020-024 Dark World Monsters
The following rulings apply to "Beiige, Vanguard of Dark World", "Broww, Huntsman of Dark World", "Sillva, Warlord of Dark World" and "Goldd, Wu-Lord of Dark World".

The effects of these cards are Trigger Effects that can be chained to.

These effects only activate if the cards are discarded by a card effect. They will not activate if discarded for the cost of a card like "Lightning Vortex", "Raigeki Break", "Tribe-Infecting Virus", or "Infernal Incinerator". They will not activate if sent to the graveyard by a card effect like "Last Turn" or "Chaos Emperor Dragon "“ Envoy of the End".

If these cards are discarded by your opponent's card effect, both parts of their effects resolve in a single chain link. If "Divine Wrath" is chained to these effects, it will negate both parts.

The effects of these cards activate in the Graveyard, so "Skill Drain" will not negate their effects.

These effects can activate in the Damage Step, if discarded by the effect of a card like "Don Zaloog".

If these monsters are discarded by a card effect in the middle of a chain, or in the middle of a card effect like "Dragged Down into the Grave", their effects will activate after the current chain resolves. They cannot miss the timing.

EDIT: Oh, I forgot to add this tidbit that will help with the added effects of Silver...

If "Sillva, Warlord of Dark World" is discarded by your opponent's card effect, when his effect resolves, he is Special Summoned first, and then the second part of his effect resolves. So the opponent cannot activate "Bottomless Trap Hole" or "Torrential Tribute"; the timing is no longer correct. Also, you could no draw a card for the effect of "Card of Safe Return".