Master Monk

masterwoo0

masterwoo0

NINJA4LIFE
I didnt think my question was that hard, but it only took about 4 to 5 months to answer....


Master Monk vs Book of Moon or Tsukuyomi 2006-03-30 15:59:00 <James Johnson>


1. Okay, Master Monk's effect allows him to attack twice in the same Battle Phase,
but not necessarily back to back, so he can attack, then let another monster
attack, and resume Battle himself.

That being said, if Master Monk attacks a monster, and after the Damage
Calculation is complete, my opponent activates Book of Moon to flip him
face-down, does this reset his effect if he is somehow flipped face-up in attack,
allowing him to again attack twice in the same Battle face, ignoring the fact
that he already attacked once,

or

Will he only be able to carry out his second attack, if he can still attack
at all?

2. Same scenario as above, only substitute attacking a face-down Tsukuyomi.

Thanks!

----------------------------------------------------

If you attack once (or twice), and then after the attack "Master Monk" is flipped-face down by "Tsukuyomi" or "Book of Moon",
you could activate "Desert Sunlight" then "Final Attack Orders" and attack 2 more times.

Dan Scheidegger
Jr. Game Designer
Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG R&D
Upper Deck Entertainment
 
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Since the response to the attack did not result in the monster "remaining" face-down at the end of the chain, the attack is the last action to resolve. The monster is still in attack position, therefore the attack will continue.
 
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So let me get this straight. Because I'm a little late getting back into the discussion. Since I'm 3 days behind. XD

The discussion is whether Double Attack monsters would have the chance to attack an additional two times if flipped face down and then flipped face up in the Battle Phase, correct?

So let me just shed a nice little point.

Attacks don't reset in this game at all. Once a player has declared an attack with that monster then that attack with that monster has been "recorded" in a sense. The only thing to ever be able to reset for monsters when monsters are flipped face down and then face up are effects. It has always been like that to my knowledge.

Monsters flipped face down and then face up aren't considered to be a new monster. It isn't losing any connection to anything for it to be considered a "new" monster. There's no mechanical evidence to support attacks being reset. The only mechanical evidence to support why they couldn't attack again is because monster effects are what get reset when monsters flip face down and then face up.


But I never really put much thought into discussions like these. They tend to annoy me more than help. I'll simply rule on the situation that the player can't attack again with that monster. Because I rather assume that it isn't legal than to allow it to be legal and screw things up at a tournament. However, I wouldn't put it past Konami to swing either way on the matter.
 
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John Danker said:
Keep in mind there are cards that can "make" an opponent's monster attack again after it's already attacked....just food for discussion.
Click to expand...
Forcing an attack and declaring a manual attack are two completely different things.

More food for discussion. =)
 
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Tkwiget said:
I'll simply rule on the situation that the player can't attack again with that monster. Because I rather assume that it isn't legal than to allow it to be legal and screw things up at a tournament. However, I wouldn't put it past Konami to swing either way on the matter.
Click to expand...

Yet the whole discussion is because we did get a ruling that the monster can attack additional times. Which is exactly what we are talking about. Effects reset. If a monster is granted attacks by an effect and the effect is reset then the monster has more attacks.
 
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Could you please draw up a legal situation where this might occur? Because I do believe that the first initial attack doesn't use the effect. Because that would count as the first attack it would be allowed to have normally.

This is what happens when I'm out of the discussion for three days. XD
 
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Tkwiget said:
Could you please draw up a legal situation where this might occur? Because I do believe that the first initial attack doesn't use the effect. Because that would count as the first attack it would be allowed to have normally.

This is what happens when I'm out of the discussion for three days. XD
Click to expand...

Masterwoo said:
Master Monk vs Book of Moon or Tsukuyomi 2006-03-30 15:59:00 <James Johnson>


1. Okay, Master Monk's effect allows him to attack twice in the same Battle Phase,
but not necessarily back to back, so he can attack, then let another monster
attack, and resume Battle himself.

That being said, if Master Monk attacks a monster, and after the Damage
Calculation is complete, my opponent activates Book of Moon to flip him
face-down, does this reset his effect if he is somehow flipped face-up in attack,
allowing him to again attack twice in the same Battle face, ignoring the fact
that he already attacked once,

or

Will he only be able to carry out his second attack, if he can still attack
at all?

2. Same scenario as above, only substitute attacking a face-down Tsukuyomi.

Thanks!

----------------------------------------------------

If you attack once (or twice), and then after the attack "Master Monk" is flipped-face down by "Tsukuyomi" or "Book of Moon",
you could activate "Desert Sunlight" then "Final Attack Orders" and attack 2 more times.

Dan Scheidegger
Jr. Game Designer
Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG R&D
Upper Deck Entertainment
__________________
Click to expand...

Where have we received a ruling that the first attack does not use the effect? His effect is that he can attack twice, not that he can attack an additional time after his normal attack. This is EXACTLY what I've been saying since October. The effect actually overides the regular game mechanic. There is no one-attack for the turn from the game mechanic because his effect replaces the game mechanic. The only time you would have the standard game mechanic attack for a Master Monk is when you have an active Skill Drain.
 
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I'm sorry, I don't function very well on Mondays. XD

Alright, what Dan said was very interesting. It appears that monsters that have already attacked previously can attack attack if allowed. I was thinking of the Double Attackers that require to destroy a monster in order to attack again. Those are the trigger effect ones and not the continuous effect ones.

I believe that Dan is explaining that attacks can be reset of monsters that have previously attacked; like effects.

Thanks, that's pretty interesting. lol

<does a scavager hunt for some coffee>
 
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He is not saying that monsters can attack if they are flipped face-down and face-up again. He is saying "Master Monk" can because of his EFFECT.

That's the reason I posed my question the way I did.

"Ignoring" the fact that he has already attacked.​

I expressly made that a point to ask, with that statement in mind.

Dan did NOT state "a monster" can attack again. He said "Master Monk".
 
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Tkwiget said:
I believe that Dan is explaining that attacks can be reset of monsters that have previously attacked; like effects.
Click to expand...

Actually the exact opposite. Standard attacks (the game mechanic) do not reset. Effects reset. It just happens that the attacks of Master Monk are from Effect (not from the game mechanic because the game mechanic has been overridden by the effect).

So if a standard monster is flip-flopped after it has attacked it has still attacked and the game does not allow it to declare another (pure game mechanic).

On the other hand, if Asura Priest attacks three Spirit Reapers on the opponent's field and flip-flops his effect resets and says "can attack each monster on the opponent's field" hence three more attacks against the Reapers.
 
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Man I really am not with it this morning. =/

So he's saying that monsters like Master Monk's Double Attacking effect (excluding ones that require to have destroyed one previously in battle) can attack additional times during that turn when flipped face up and are in attack position.

I can understand this because of the effect being reset.

However, I do believe this would be different for Double Attackers like Ruin, Queen of Oblivion or Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning, or Tyrant Dragon. Since their effects for their Double Attacking are trigger effects.

Because Continuous Effects do work differently from Trigger. I think I'm completely missing everything in this discussion. =/
 
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So it means that it does have a normal once per turn chance to attack... now, where im getting to is this, every monster has his one attack, so when do we determine that Master Monk has used his effect or not??
 
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LOL. Now you're on the right track. And that is what I've been saying. The "extra attackers" like Tyrant Dragon are still dependent on the first Game Mechanic attack in order to Trigger their effect and get an additional attack. Thus flip-flop may reset their effect but since they don't get the initial game mechanic attack back it won't be able to trigger (barring the opponent getting brilliant and activating Dark Spirit of the Silent to get them attacking again):)
 
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slither said:
So it means that it does have a normal once per turn chance to attack... now, where im getting to is this, every monster has his one attack, so when do we determine that Master Monk has used his effect or not??
Click to expand...

When Master Monk attacks he is using his effect. His effect is that he "can" attack twice per turn, it doesn't mean he has to use both but it does mean that the effect takes the place of the regular attack game mechanic.
 
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Master Monk's secondary attack is similar to Hayabusa Knight and Mataza the Zapper. It's a continuous effect. The effect is established on the field that the monster can attack an additional time.

When I got back into the discussion I was confused at first on why monsters like Master Monk would still get to attack again. Their continuous effects and yet are optional to use too. They aren't dependant on the first attack in any way.

I'm still confused.. @_@
 
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anthonyj said:
When Master Monk attacks he is using his effect. His effect is that he "can" attack twice per turn, it doesn't mean he has to use both but it does mean that the effect takes the place of the regular attack game mechanic.
Click to expand...

Thats precisely what im trying to figure out why it would, if Skill Drain robbed him from that priviledge it could still attack, it just wouldn't attack twice, so why doesn't he have a standard attack even without Skill Drain.
 
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Tkwiget said:
Master Monk's secondary attack is similar to Hayabusa Knight and Mataza the Zapper. It's a continuous effect. The effect is established on the field that the monster can attack an additional time.

When I got back into the discussion I was confused at first on why monsters like Master Monk would still get to attack again. Their continuous effects and yet are optional to use too. They aren't dependant on the first attack in any way.

I'm still confused.. @_@
Click to expand...

The effect isn't optional to use. The effect allows them 2 attacks. They can use 1 attack, they can use 2 attacks. The attack doesn't "kick in" after the first attack, the effect is always there. It is standing in place of the standard game mechanic which would only allow 1 attack, and saying this monster can attack twice instead of once. The game mechanic does still keep track of the fact that the monster is attacking and thus if Skill Drain is activated after the first attack the game mechanic jumps in and says "Hey, you already attacked this turn!" But the effect itself allows 2 attacks per the effect (which if reset will again allow 2 attacks).
 
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