kingpinopie
Himoura Shinta
Ok... Royal Oppression... can it negate ANY special summon?? BLS.. Nimbles... etc?? and do you have to pay 800 each time you negate ??
Royal Oppression
- Thread starter kingpinopie
- Start date
You can't destroy cards while they reside in the Graveyard, so in the first case, you cannot destroy them and thier effects will not Trigger again.
There is nothing mechanically sound about the second case, since the monster is successfully summoned during the resolution of the effect. So you cannot use Horn/SJ/RO to negate a summon that is already successful.
If that's what the JERP states, then i would definately dissagree.
There is nothing mechanically sound about the second case, since the monster is successfully summoned during the resolution of the effect. So you cannot use Horn/SJ/RO to negate a summon that is already successful.
If that's what the JERP states, then i would definately dissagree.
John Danker
Administrator
DaGuyWitBluGlasses said:
I don't think I understand what you're getting at here. Vampire Lord doesn't have to be on the field when destroyed by an opponent's card effect to qualify to be special summoned by it's own effect from the graveyard. If it's summon is negated by Horn of Heaven then it never made it to the field, yet, Horn of Heaven destroys it and Vampire Lord's effect activates from the graveyard on the following standby phase....but...you knew that already.
I think this is just a case where I don't understand exactly what you're wording is getting at.
DaGuyWitBluGlasses
New Member
John Danker said:
Yes: but if it were summoned from the graveyard and negated then even in the event that it could be considered "destroyed" by Horn of Heaven V.Lords effect wouldn't activate, as it would not be considered "Sent" to the graveyard. HOw could you send it to the graveyard if it's being treated as it never left?
chaosruler
New Member
Well, what John D. was getting at is that if you summon your 1st Vampire Lord, and (for some god-knows-why reason) they use Chain Destruction, then the 2nd Vampire Lord comes back during the Standby Phase, hence if Vampire Lord is destroyed while in the deck, then he comes back too 
-chaosruler
-chaosruler
Raijinili said:
Sorry, I have to amend that. Geez, you people argue over a little error. AN ERROR. LITTLE. ARGUE. GEEZ.
...PEOPLE. YOU. RIDICULOUS. STOP ME.
Case 1: Negate the effect.
Case 2: Negate the special summon.
The Nephthys ruling is for the first case while the Vampire Lord ruling is for the second place.
You can't special summon in the first case because the card never left the graveyard.
For the second case, the card's summon is negated, then the card is destroyed. Have you ever wondered what would happen if a monster's summon was negated but it wasn't destroyed? I have. It's creepy... a card on the monster zone with no monster associated with it... *shudders*
Well, John, does that explain how they're destroyed if their special summons are negated? *shudders*
BY THE WAY... I made a headline! I PM'd Puppiy, the WM of the JERP, on his message board about the Royal Oppression Damage Step ruling. I don't know what the heck he's saying, but here:
http://rule.s3.xrea.com/modules/wordpress/index.php?p=80
The Royal Oppression in the Damage Step is more of a "i heard it from somewhere" thing.
I did hear if from Gary who is usually very reliable, and said that Kevin himself specifically told him that. So i was just passing it on.
To me it's not a big deal, if you can so be it, if you can't, no prob. I can see it working only because when negating a summon, it has the same timing as Horn/SJ anyway.
I did hear if from Gary who is usually very reliable, and said that Kevin himself specifically told him that. So i was just passing it on.
To me it's not a big deal, if you can so be it, if you can't, no prob. I can see it working only because when negating a summon, it has the same timing as Horn/SJ anyway.
But that would make it another BKSS (or Because Kevin or Konami said so) since it is not a Counter Trap and doesn't directly affect ATK or DEF it should not be able to be activated in the damage step. I'm very concerned about the rulings that have been coming out recently with Peten, Exiled Force, End of Anubis, etc. It doesn't even appear that we are mirroring JERP rulings anymore, we seem to be getting some strange new directions from how Kevin says it works with lack of regard for what has come before and not even a "we've been doing it wrong all this time" type response.
I have to say thank god I've been so buried at work I haven't had more than 10 seconds to try to catch up here and there. Reading through a lot of these posts I'm sure the best of us are pretty much going insane trying to keep up with what in the world is happening to this game.
I have to say thank god I've been so buried at work I haven't had more than 10 seconds to try to catch up here and there. Reading through a lot of these posts I'm sure the best of us are pretty much going insane trying to keep up with what in the world is happening to this game.
DaGuyWitBluGlasses
New Member
Not exactly:
Remember there aren't specific rules about counter-traps.. but rather counter traps follow rules that other similar cards follow:
Maryokutai, A-team Trap Disposal Unit, Sorcerer of Dark Magic etc.
Can all be activated in the damage step.
And Royal Oppresion (when chaining) does have an effect equivalent to Sorceror of Dark Magic's.
Remember there aren't specific rules about counter-traps.. but rather counter traps follow rules that other similar cards follow:
Maryokutai, A-team Trap Disposal Unit, Sorcerer of Dark Magic etc.
Can all be activated in the damage step.
And Royal Oppresion (when chaining) does have an effect equivalent to Sorceror of Dark Magic's.
I hear you brother, i don't like it anymore than you do...anthonyj said:
The Royal Oppression thing though, to me, is not the end of the world. This I can actually see. It's not Official though so i would caution everyone for now.
I think it's important for all of us to get out of the "infant" thinking and finally start acknowledging the fact that there are far more effects that don't modify ATK/DEF and are not Counter Traps that can be activated in the Damage Step.
John Danker
Administrator
Raijinili said:
No, I'm afraid I'm just not seeing it. If we're talking about the special summon from the graveyard being negated (the second case) then where is it when you say it's destroyed? It's either in the graveyard (which means it can't be destroyed....again) or it's floating above the field when it's summon is negated. I'm not aware of the "Floating above the field monster state" It's certainly not on the field being destroyed because it's summon has been negated.
No, sorry, that doesn't explain it for me. Perhaps I'm just being thick headed and not thinking in the lines of others. I indeed HAVE been known to "just not see it" at times.
John Danker
Administrator
Raijinili said:
It was never placed on the field, the summon was negated, it never happened.
John Danker
Administrator
Raijinili said:
No, I'm saying that if you negate the effect that summons a monster from the graveyard it never came out of the graveyard and therefore can't be destroyed (again)
Even if that monster was still in your hand it would be destroyed <g> ....but you can't destroy something that is in the graveyard.
Okay, what's the difference between negating a summon from the hand, and negating a special summon from the graveyard? Both cards hit the field, but the monsters themselves aren't existing on the field. If you can't visualize this, you should learn the Trap-Monster rulings.
And how come you don't have messengers?
And how come you don't have messengers?
StRiKe_NiNjA
Dimension Shift Ninja
Raijinili said:Okay, what's the difference between negating a summon from the hand, and negating a special summon from the graveyard? Both cards hit the field, but the monsters themselves aren't existing on the field. If you can't visualize this, you should learn the Trap-Monster rulings.
And how come you don't have messengers?
This is because the monster never makes it to the field at all... take Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys for a moment, that gets placed onto a chain when it's effect activates in the graveyard...
The Divine Wrath ruling proves this.
No, the Divine Wrath ruling does not prove this. The Divine Wrath ruling was ruled for the specific case where the EFFECT of the special summon was negated. Negating the effect and negating the special summon... darn, lost my words. Well, they're two different things.StRiKe_NiNjA said:
Here's an example. You have two Royal Oppression on the field. Your opponent activates Vampire Lord's effect. You chain the effect of one Royal Oppression to it. He chains Mystical Space Typhoon to destroy that Royal Oppression. Since you have another Royal Oppression, and since it can't negate the effect without chaining directly onto the effect (counter-trap rulings), you have to wait until VLord's effect is resolving. Then you activate the second effect, to negate the special summon itself (this is not chaining).
See above. Royal Oppression negating the special summon is NOT the same as it negating the effect itself.
StRiKe_NiNjA
Dimension Shift Ninja
Raijinili said:
How is the last part not "chaining"? Royal Oppression has a manually activated effect that you choose to activate, it will always go on a chain.
If this case were true, which it isn't, this would fall for Horn of Heaven as well.
Your "2nd" Royal Oppression would not be able to negate "Special Summon" of Vampire Lord, as it was Special Summoned by an "effect" that has already "resolved". You don't "cut" out the fact that it was Special Summoned by an "effect" especially one that had already resolved.
Follow Horn of Heaven for example, as it is a Counter-Trap card. If Kuriboh were to be Special Summoned by Monster Reborn, and the Special Summon occurs, Horn of Heaven would not be able to negate it (Counter-Trap ruling), this would fall for Royal Oppression as well.
Hmmmm . . .
Wonder what would happen if we apllied the proper definition of the word negate? Just wondering. <thump> <thump> <sound of Digtal Jedi beating dead horse>
Wonder what would happen if we apllied the proper definition of the word negate? Just wondering. <thump> <thump> <sound of Digtal Jedi beating dead horse>