Weird call of the tournament

J

John Danker

Administrator
I just thought I'd start posting the weirdest rulings call I'm asked to make each tournament for fun.

Des Moines Regional last Sat.

Player 1 special summons Thousand Eyes Restrict and absorbs Player 2's face down monster, ends turn.

Player 2 draws and sets a monsters, ends turn.

Player 1 draws and in main phase 1 activates Nobleman of Extermination on the face down eqip. to his own Thousand Eyes Restrict.

If you want me to tell you how I ruled it I'd be happy to but it's not the intention of this thread. What I want to do is present scenarios to you to rule, on the spot, without looking them up.

It never fails, you always seem to run into at least one scenario you haven't seen before no matter how long you've been judging!
 
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ilikepiesodie said:
no ones questioning that it is a spell card there discussing whether it is face up or face down.
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exactly... the equip card is usually face up... so why would this be different.... Even if TER's effect is what hooks it there, it should be treated as a face up card that is equipped.. if it has the appearance of a face down defense monster, then that is what it looks like. BUT, you cant equip something that is face down..... so by that logic it should be considered an equip spell or even just an equipped card, that has the appearance / for atk/def boost purposes... of a face down monster.... which you dont know the atk/def of, so therefore makes TER / Rel. ATK/Def...0/0...

And if they expect us to use common sense, then why did they errata Skull Lair and Chaos Ghostrider for us so we know they mean SPELL or Monster card specifically...??hmmmm
 
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I think it is face-up, because, even though the monster is face-down, equip cards have no effect if face-down, so it must be inherently face-up...

just my thoughts
-chaosruler
 
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chaosruler said:
I think it is face-up, because, even though the monster is face-down, equip cards have no effect if face-down, so it must be inherently face-up...

just my thoughts
-chaosruler
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The equipped Monsters have no effect! Imperial Order has no effect over the equipped monsters because it's REL/TER effect that determinates the atk and def
 
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Dimensional Warrior - I was referring to equip spell cards in general, not specifically the monster :eek: , (ex. A Mage Power face-down in the Spell/Trap Zone does not increase the ATK/DEF of a monster in the same column as it, etc.) I get what you were sayin' though, but i think the card is considered "abstractly face-up" for purposes like nobleman of extermination,

John Danker - can you PM me about your ruling, I wanna know, what did you decide?, I won't post it...

-chaosruler
 
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DimensionalWarrior said:
The equipped Monsters have no effect! Imperial Order has no effect over the equipped monsters because it's REL/TER effect that determinates the atk and def
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Right , but it is an equipped card. NOT even Treated as an equip SPELL...or else Imperial Order would affect it.... but it doesnt.... so 1. Since its equipped it should be counted as a face up equip, 2. If it is face down, that is the appearance of the equip....

This equip has NO effect, but it does act as an equip card, and as such transfers the showing ATK/DEF to TER or Relinquished. So the ATK/Def of a facedown Monster is 0/0, but its an equip card. And since a card that is face down cannot be equipped, it is a face up equip with the appearance (ATK/DEF) of a face down def...... You equip it face down so you know that it is a 0/0, not cuz you CAN equip it face down..... .... ALSO, since it ISNT an equip spell, and ISNT TREATED as such..... it cant be targeted by Nob.of Extermination.....
 
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chaos ruler he already posted how he ruled it

John Danker said:
I ruled it could indeed be destroyed. It should be interesting to find out if I was correct...more importantly....WHY or WHY NOT!
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kingpinopie- actually it is treated as an equip spell otherwise you couldnt use magic reflector with it
 
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ilikepiesodie said:
kingpinopie- actually it is treated as an equip spell otherwise you couldnt use magic reflector with it
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if it is treated as an equip spell, why did they take it off of the card text??? They can put it in when its needed for some cards, but take it off so people dont have a clue on others?? thats a double standard isnt it?
 
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they thought that us duelists would use common sense (like that exists anymore, eh?) and not get ungodly technical about it, (no insult intended, kingpinopie, love your avatar) oh well, i guess that's my logic, meh

-chaosruler
 
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kingpinopie- they took it off of the card cause they removed all text from cards that could be explained by game mechanics. Which this can cause there are 3 main type of cards in yu-gi-oh which are monster, trap, and spell, each one of those is further divided in to sub categorys for monsters theres effect, non effect, ritual, and fusion for spells theres equip, normal, quick play, continius, field, and ritual. for traps theres normal, counter, and continius. the only type of card with an equip sub category is spells therefor it wasnt needed.

chaosruler-i live in cedar rapids, iowa
 
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DimensionalWarrior said:
The equipped Monsters have no effect! Imperial Order has no effect over the equipped monsters because it's REL/TER effect that determinates the atk and def
Click to expand...

That doesn't make a difference in this case...

For example, if i have Premature Burial attached to Maha Vailo and Imperial Order is active, does he still not gain the 500 ATK?

Premature once equipped really has no effect, other than being equipped to the monster. Maha Vailo draws a boost from that, in the same respect that Rel/TER does from the equipped monster.

All you are really saying is that it is a monster effect that is creating the boost.

It is still an Equip type, and a face-down Spell/Trap cannot have a card type, it is simply a face-down card of an unknown type, and the only reason we know that it is either a Spell/Trap is because of the Zone you put it in, in this game. Its precisely the reason why De-Spell/Bait Doll must first flip the card face-up and check the type before it can be destroyed. For all intents and purposes the card is simply a Set Spell or Trap Card of type "unknown".

Once a Spell/Trap object resolves into play as an Equip object it is face-up on the field.
 
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ok.. i will have to go with the group, but i was a fun debate... .. I just figured that they would keep the equip spell thing on there if they meant it to be like that... but the game mechanics thing makes sense too... oh well.. i guess i AM wrong... and no matter how i try to rationalize it, it will still be so....


PS./ I have the best Avatar.... lol
 
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I missed this? lol

Nobleman of Extermination can be activated on to the Equip Spell card currently equipped to Thousand-Eyes Restrict, if the monster equipped is face-down.

The same thing would be for Magical Hats and Comulsory Evacuation Device. In reality it isn't a monster, but you still send one of the 2 non-monsters cards being treated as monster with Compulsory Evacuation Device, placing Pot of Greed in your hand.

Make sense?
 
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ilikepiesodie said:
actually it cant and i fail to see what your example has to do with the scenario at all
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You activate Magical Hats. Search your deck, and place 2 non-monsters cards from your deck to the field (Pot of Greed and Graceful Charity). These cards are then placed on the field then shuffled with the monster you wish to protect (Penguin Soldier). Say your lucky enough for your opponent attacks Penguin Soldier, then you bounce 2 monster cards on the field. (The Pot of Greed and Graceful Charity being treated as monsters)
 
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StRiKe_NiNjA said:
I missed this? lol

Nobleman of Extermination can be activated on to the Equip Spell card currently equipped to Thousand-Eyes Restrict, if the monster equipped is face-down.

The same thing would be for Magical Hats and Comulsory Evacuation Device. In reality it isn't a monster, but you still send one of the 2 non-monsters cards being treated as monster with Compulsory Evacuation Device, placing Pot of Greed in your hand.

Make sense?
Click to expand...

I tried pointing that out earlier, I'm not sure anyone read or listened, lol.
As I also said, text on the cards usually overrule basic game mechanics. It's in the spell/trap zone, the card itself is face down, it's just "acting" as an equip. If anything, I would be inclined to believe it's both face up AND face down. Here's a question, can it be targetted by something that only targets face up spells? (Burning Beast when equipped on Freezing Beast, or XY-Dragon Cannon) Anyone care to look up a possible ruling for that?

I'm thinking this will all lead to four words....
Because Konami Said So
 
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