Master Monk

masterwoo0

masterwoo0

NINJA4LIFE
I didnt think my question was that hard, but it only took about 4 to 5 months to answer....


Master Monk vs Book of Moon or Tsukuyomi 2006-03-30 15:59:00 <James Johnson>


1. Okay, Master Monk's effect allows him to attack twice in the same Battle Phase,
but not necessarily back to back, so he can attack, then let another monster
attack, and resume Battle himself.

That being said, if Master Monk attacks a monster, and after the Damage
Calculation is complete, my opponent activates Book of Moon to flip him
face-down, does this reset his effect if he is somehow flipped face-up in attack,
allowing him to again attack twice in the same Battle face, ignoring the fact
that he already attacked once,

or

Will he only be able to carry out his second attack, if he can still attack
at all?

2. Same scenario as above, only substitute attacking a face-down Tsukuyomi.

Thanks!

----------------------------------------------------

If you attack once (or twice), and then after the attack "Master Monk" is flipped-face down by "Tsukuyomi" or "Book of Moon",
you could activate "Desert Sunlight" then "Final Attack Orders" and attack 2 more times.

Dan Scheidegger
Jr. Game Designer
Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG R&D
Upper Deck Entertainment
 
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Ok, so why is it that Monster Monk would work any different?? Ben Kei is pointing out his attack aside his normal once per turn, and added to that the exact same text as Master Monk, so would Master Monk have his normal attack included inside the 2 attacks??
 
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slither said:
Ok, so why is it that Monster Monk would work any different?? Ben Kei is pointing out his attack aside his normal once per turn, and added to that the exact same text as Master Monk, so would Master Monk have his normal attack included inside the 2 attacks??
Click to expand...
Yes, I believe that the normal attack that every monster has would be included in Master Monk's two attacks. However, the regular attack isn't required for the second one to be used.

Hayabusa Knight v.s. Magic Cylinder ruling explains that. Master Monk functions very similiar to Hayabusa Knight.
 
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The normal attack cant help but be placed within his two attacks, or else he would have a "normal" attack, and maybe two separate attacks.

The only difference is, Master Monk CAN attack twice. That shouldnt be that hard of a concept. I really dont see what the hang up is on him actually even having a normal attack, especially since I keep hearing that his subsequent attack is not dependent on the first.

So, actually, why would his first attack be a Normal one? Is there a rule that says your first attack must be a Normal Attack, followed by your effect attack?

I know it makes a difference, especially in the scenario where a monster that is dependent on the first attack to trigger the second, but again, where is it written, other than for those monsters?
 
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For Master Monk it doesn't matter because the first attack can be negated without affecting the access to the second attack.

That's what makes it a continuous effect. The fact of the matter is that the first attack of any monster is the "1 attack per turn" mechanic. Master Monk's effect by passes that as we know.

Something like this I can't even explain that well. =/
 
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Maybe it is a special case scenario, the problem is not much of if it does have 2 attacks or not, but more what would let it reset its "own" normal attack per turn.

Maybe it's correct t assume that we are just whirling around in a not much obvious situation, but then again, what does this game have that doesn't create a conondrum.
 
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So far we all agree that this shouldn't be this way, but it is. The only Reasoning that fits this ruling has being stated (being allowed to attack by his effect) so if there're still some doubts why not ask to the source???

P.S
and completely out of topic, after reading this ruling i believe that the real name of Master Monk is.... Chuck Norris....
 
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I know I first suggested the idea of his attacks being purely effect based, but I'm leary of it. Though that message does seem to indicate it.

What's hard about is the fact that it introduces a new layer to the game that, quite frankly, wasn't there before. All of a sudden we're using self-made terminology like "effect attack" and "manual attack". It's all a little bit disturbing.

I submit that no attack is effect based. All attacks are granted to a monster via game mechanics or rules. The Game says a monster can attack during the Battle Phase, not a Trap Card during the Standby Phase. Not a Spell Card during the Draw Phase. Only Monster Cards and only during the Battle Phase.

That said, now we have an effect, worded slightly diferent, then previous effects that appear, on the surface, very similar to this new one. And we only just now recieve an instruction that this new effect can be reset. But why didn't this question come up beofre?

I submit that it didn't come up before, becuase the older effects cannot do this and still can't. We know for a certainty that Konami literelay translates their card text from Japanese, as opposed to transliteration.So when I see a similar effect, but with slightly different text that modify it's behaior somewhat, and couple that with the fact that the Judges Lst tells us it behaves in away that that they've never instructed us to do with other similar effects, and I am led to belive that the effect on this card has been written incorrectly. Not like there isn't precedence for that happening.

All that combined leads me to belive that Mataza the Zapper, Hayabusa Knight and such do not get their effects reset when flip-flopped. Only Master Monk.
 
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anthonyj said:
There is no one-attack for the turn from the game mechanic because his effect replaces the game mechanic. The only time you would have the standard game mechanic attack for a Master Monk is when you have an active Skill Drain.
Click to expand...

Skill Drain is active. Master Monk attacks. Then after the damage step activate Mystical Space Typhoon to destroy Skill Drain. Does Master Monk Now get his 2 effect attacks? One 2nd attack? No more attacks?

Or Master Monk uses 2 effect attacks, then after the damage step, Skill Drain is activated, Master Monk now gets a regular attack?

Once again, this judge list post is asking questions instead of answering them.
 
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He would only get one more attack. Why would he get 2 more? He was still face-up when Skill Drain was destroyed. His effect states that he ONLY gets 2 attacks in the same turn. Skill Drain has nothing to do with him having attacked once already.

That's why I said Master Monk's REAL underlying effect is actually a restriction, rather than a actual "yippie, 2 attacks" effect.
 
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DaGuyWitBluGlasses said:
Skill Drain is active. Master Monk attacks. Then after the damage step activate Mystical Space Typhoon to destroy Skill Drain. Does Master Monk Now get his 2 effect attacks? One 2nd attack? No more attacks?

Or Master Monk uses 2 effect attacks, then after the damage step, Skill Drain is activated, Master Monk now gets a regular attack?

Once again, this judge list post is asking questions instead of answering them.
Click to expand...

I was already pondering the Skill Drain scenario yesterday (didn't want to muddy the water with a situation that truly is still up in the air).

Honestly. We haven't seen any rulings on Skill Drain that would suggest that it resets once per turn effects. As such unless we get such a ruling I would say just like I did previously that the Game Mechanic for attacks is still cognizent that an attack is being made by Master Monk when he makes an attack. Thus if Master Monk attacks once and Skill Drain is activated afterward but before the second attack there isn't a second attack because the game registered the first attack and that is good enough for the game mechanic. If the Skill Drain is then removed from the field or negated then the second attack would once again be available for use. But not two more (unless we get a ruling that Chaos Sorcerer can remove a monster, Skill Drain activate and resolve, and then remove another monster).
 
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Digital Jedi said:
I know I first suggested the idea of his attacks being purely effect based, but I'm leary of it. Though that message does seem to indicate it.

What's hard about is the fact that it introduces a new layer to the game that, quite frankly, wasn't there before. All of a sudden we're using self-made terminology like "effect attack" and "manual attack". It's all a little bit disturbing.

I submit that no attack is effect based. All attacks are granted to a monster via game mechanics or rules. The Game says a monster can attack during the Battle Phase, not a Trap Card during the Standby Phase. Not a Spell Card during the Draw Phase. Only Monster Cards and only during the Battle Phase.

That said, now we have an effect, worded slightly diferent, then previous effects that appear, on the surface, very similar to this new one. And we only just now recieve an instruction that this new effect can be reset. But why didn't this question come up beofre?

I submit that it didn't come up before, becuase the older effects cannot do this and still can't. We know for a certainty that Konami literelay translates their card text from Japanese, as opposed to transliteration.So when I see a similar effect, but with slightly different text that modify it's behaior somewhat, and couple that with the fact that the Judges Lst tells us it behaves in away that that they've never instructed us to do with other similar effects, and I am led to belive that the effect on this card has been written incorrectly. Not like there isn't precedence for that happening.

All that combined leads me to belive that Mataza the Zapper, Hayabusa Knight and such do not get their effects reset when flip-flopped. Only Master Monk.
Click to expand...
I submit it is extremely possible that this has been missed until now. Desert Sunlight is only a year old, before then what were the options for flip-flopping during the battle phase? Six months ago we started asking questions about it on the Judge's List. And now we are getting our first answer and it is in regards to the most current monster to come out with this effect. We all know that Konami has a higher tendency to respond with rulings to newer cards than to older ones. This could quite easily be something that was missed until now.
 
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I was not in any way suggesting that Skill Drain would reset any effect. My questions had absolutely nothing to do with resetting Master Monk's effect.

Now let's go by Masterwoo's suggestion that it only gets one more attack after Skill Drain is destroyed:

What happens then when Master Monk gets flipped face down and back face-up.

Would it still get its two attacks? Or will it only get a second- second attack, since the first one can not be forgotten?

--

Note: attempts to answer it are simply "Affirming the Consequant."
 
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2 attacks max, the effect of Master Monk is continuous (technically), and will look to the game for a count of how many attacks have occured.

It is not a "2 attack effect" it simply gives him the ability to attack a second time, if the effect is active.

The game keeps track of how many "attacks" a monster has and has made.
 
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DaGuyWitBluGlasses said:
I was not in any way suggesting that Skill Drain would reset any effect. My questions had absolutely nothing to do with resetting Master Monk's effect.

Now let's go by Masterwoo's suggestion that it only gets one more attack after Skill Drain is destroyed:

What happens then when Master Monk gets flipped face down and back face-up.

Would it still get its two attacks? Or will it only get a second- second attack, since the first one can not be forgotten?

--

Note: attempts to answer it are simply "Affirming the Consequant."
Click to expand...
Well, flipping a monster face-down is completely different, as that would re-issue the attack declaration ability, giving an additional attack.

So in short, you would get to attack 2 more times again, as the attack count is reset from the flipping.

As long as the monk would remain face-up, he would get 1 normal attack, AND if his effect is active, 1 additional attack, the game records this, and Skill Drain does not affect it.
 
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novastar said:
2 attacks max, the effect of Master Monk is continuous (technically), and will look to the game for a count of how many attacks have occured.

It is not a "2 attack effect" it simply gives him the ability to attack a second time, if the effect is active.

The game keeps track of how many "attacks" a monster has made.
Click to expand...

So Dan is completely off base here? Or partially wrong in the number of attacks after the flip-flop?
 
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